I went to the range today with the Gen4 G20.
I had both the stock Glock barrel with me, as well as a Lone Wolf 10mm barrel.
I had both the stock Glock two stage recoil spring, as well as an aftermarket stainless steel guide, Gen4 adapter bushing, and a 24# spring.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-c25Nmj9/0/L/i-c25Nmj9-L.jpg)
The ammo I tested was Underwood 135g Nosler and Underwood 155g XTP.
Results with Lone Wolf and 24# Spring
Both ammo varieties had failures to feed, about one out of every five rounds, and it had nothing to do with a tighter chamber. All misfeeds were caused by the slide passing over the next round in the magazine. Correcting the situation was simply pulling the slide back to get behind the round and releasing it to feed into the chamber. Empties landed 12-20 feet away.
Results with Stock barrel and stock spring
No failures to feed. Smiles, especially with the 155 XTP loads. The empties didn't eject as far as with the 24# spring, mostly 6-15 feet away. Could it be the spring is heavier than the Gen3 offerings?
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-vFmRMgg/0/XL/i-vFmRMgg-XL.jpg)
Stock Barrel w/ 24# Spring
No failures to feed. Empties ejected as far as with the Lone Wolf barrel. Brass had many smiles with the 155 XTP loads. One smile on the 135g load also.
More Questions than Answers
Could it be the stock Gen4 is under rated by those on the forum. Less ejection distance than a 24# spring. I had a similar experience with a 22# spring also in prior outings.
Why would the choice of barrels cause the slide to pass over the round instead of feeding it. I could see a spring making the difference, but the barrel???
Conclusions
If your life depends on it, leave the Gen4 stock. Just feed it what it likes and live with it.
Lone Wolf is much easier in the brass, but makes the pistol fussier with high impulse ammo.
The 155g XTP loads are a little hotter than I'm comfortable with in a stock Gen4 G20.
Greg
Geeman. was the 24lb spring a captive setup? ???
I still relate to the fact, that the captive springs, don't keep the lockup quite as long as the non-captive springs at the critical point of ignition and pressure phase.
The Factory dual spring, does stack it's weight, mid stroke and toward the rear, However it may benefit from stronger springs in that configuration, much like that of the Glock-29. I'd like to see a dual non-captive recoil spring arrangement for the G-20 gen4, like the Dual spring setup from Wolff Gun Springs makes for the G-29. :-\
It is captive. I don't know of a Gen4 alternative that isn't. Maybe Springco RMS?
To me, it really doesn't matter anymore. I've bought enough springs, as well as an aftermarket barrel, and the only thing I've acomplished was to damage the bank account. The stock does at least as well, and truth be known, stock does better. I know that there is the desire to shoot something, just because they make it and it chambers in the gun, but I'm done with that. If it shoots, I'll shoot it. If it causes issues, I won't buy it or load it anymore. After all, it shoots those XTPs in stock configuration, and they are hot!
No more money into the ugly pistol. I'm keeping it stock unless I know someone that is successful in correcting an existing problem. I just won't buy those 220 Hardcast Underwoods ;D.
Greg
Greg, I totally understand what you are saying...I had been studying and looking at getting the G-20 gen 4 and as I read of all the issues, then an almost new 20SF came up for a great deal locally, I could not pass that up. I was mainly looking for a platform to utilize my 6" 9X25Dillon barrel I had already purchased before hand.
I'm not even saying the Gen4 is bad. It does really well with most ammo, some of it quite strong.
I'm saying its a Glock, and it ain't quite "Perfection" :P Live within its limits and it does a good job.
Greg
I had issues with my gen 4 also. I bought a Corbon Sprinco RMS which I had more problems with FTF than the stock set up. I know it shouldn't have a break in period, however I believe it does. I had issues with Underwood 180gr TMJ, now I use the 165 gr from them with 0 FTF. I have put over 1000 through it now. I have a couple boxes of 135 and 155 also however I have not fired any. I will so I can make sure they work. I also got a 29 gen 4. Have had 0 issues with that one. Probably my favorite pistol now. Very accurate and concealable. If you try is Sprinco I would try the standard one. I am thinking about trying it again in the std form. They do seem to reduce the recoil and easier on the frame.
I think the DPM unit might run better. Zero issues in the XD.
Added a couple pics to the original post.
Greg
As you may know I had a Sprinco in my Limited Pro and have been running the DPM unit in the XD. These types of captive assemblies help in one way, but hurt in another. The slide travel to the full back position is somewhat harder and even caused some hang-ups in the Pro. I switched it over to the 22lb single Wolf spring setup and it just runs and eats everything 100%. Just my opinion here, but I think the Glocks will run a whole lot better with a single spring guide rod setup and a 20-24lb spring.
Quote from: Intercooler on March 23 2014 12:23:11 PM MDT
Just my opinion here, but I think the Glocks will run a whole lot better with a single spring guide rod setup and a 20-24lb spring.
I think there may be a difference in the Gen4 that makes the results different. I've run both 22# and 24# single springs in stainless guide rods and they didn't measure up in comparison to the stock double spring setup. It seemed the slide hit its limit harder with the single spring.
When something is broken, you need to evaluate what's wrong and examine if the fix actually fixed something. In my (somewhat limited) experience, nothing has done better that the stock setup. The only problem I had with the stock setup was some very hot handloads. All the fixes made that issue worse, and expended problems to other loadings as well.
Stock barrel and springs in mine unless I actually know of someone that "fixes" a malfunctioning Gen4 G20, then I'll think about it.
Greg
Did you ever try Wolf +10 mag springs?
No, but I have one stretched enough that it will exceed that tension with an empty magazine. It makes no difference. the slide will still randomly pass over the next round, full mag, hanf full, or last round, it makes no difference. That is a Lone Wolf issue for the main part.
In my experiments, stock does better than aftermarket. I haven't tried everything. I'd guess I dumpped $50 in shipping alone while chasing the perfect solution for the Glock. I'll just settle for what I have and stop wasting the money.
Have you corrected a problem by trying the aftermarket mag springs?
Greg
No, have not got around to trying that. Was wondering because a Glock armorer stretched my mag springs, which were all at 5", to 6", and a lot of my FTF were gone. Not all, but, a lot.
I hit the range today and the stock Gen4 g20 was onr of the pistols in the bag. I added Underwood 180g Gold dots and Underwood 150g Noslers to the list of ammo that it ran without issues.
I also had the Underwood 220g Hardcast to try. With the success I had once I returned the pistol to stock configuration, I was expecting it to run as well.
Boy does this pistol hate feeding the 220 Underwood. It failed to feed 4 of the first five in the magazine, then feed the next five without a problem. 40% failure to feed ain't too good!!! The pistol would push the round into the top or left side of the chamber and stop.
I was thinking that the Gen4 thing was licked, then came the 220 Hardcast. Next I had some handloaded 180g hollow points that were close to max. Ooops, three failures to feed. This time it was like my other issues with upper power loadings. The slide would miss the round and ride over the top of it. Three out of 10 falure to feed. I tried a second magizine after some time had passed. This one went through without a problem. Go figure.
Just a hair under max (maybe 50 fps) and the Gen4 runs grreat. Mine shoots better in stock configuration better than with aftermarket barrels and springs. I haven't tried any 200g Underwood, but 135g, 150g, 165g, and 180g Underwood loadings run fine. 220g Hardcast, forget about it.
Greg
Thanks for the report Greg! Those 220's have a wide MEPLAT. By chance did you measure the COAL?
DT actually reduced the COAL on his 220 WNFP offering to 1.2420" which improved cycling to my understanding. The tipping angle with those wide noses becomes too long at the 1.2500" if I recall.
1.252"
Just by the way it looks, if you seat it much deeper, the beginning of the taper to the meplat would be in the mouth of the case.
I thing I can do without pushing these through the Glock. Everything I've heard the performance in a Glock barrel is less than ideal anyway.
Greg