The guy should have had his mobile jury and lethal injection already. What a coward!
Yeah.
Brace up though. That many dead and injured there will be cries to restrict weapons.
Looks like they are already starting:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/bloomberg-aurora-shooting-shows-obama-romney-gun-control-plan-article-1.1118371 (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/bloomberg-aurora-shooting-shows-obama-romney-gun-control-plan-article-1.1118371)
Yeah, those murderous guns! Oh, and never let a good crisis go to waste......
For those interested, lawofficer.com (http://www.lawofficer.com/video/news/audio-aurora-theater-shooting) has the dispatch audio posted.
Uncanny.UN Treaty going on and election time.Bottom line,they want to do away with US soverignty
This idiot was going for a PHD believe it or not. He had no record and no motive from what has been released.
Just innocent people watching a movie. It's something a sane minded person can't even fathom!
As we all know, you can't legislate against crazy.......but the usual cast of characters will show up bleating about guns and proposing more controls/laws. I let the media frenzy die down for a few days before even reading much about these isolated incidents. Too much speculation and little facts until then. Shows how the MSM can manipulate public opinion.......
You seldom see anything about how 'effective' vigorous guns laws seem to be working in Chicago, Ill. :-X Sorry, this subject annoys me.
Take Chicago and NYC and move em.
What honks me off is this.
My ancestors came here to be free. They fought in the American Revolution to secure those freedoms for themselves and their posterity.
Not we have these jackwagons that don't like the idea of some of these freedoms.
Here is a thought...do what my ancestors did and MOVE. Anywhere else in the world pretty much. Almost everywhere else on earth has the kinda gun laws the anti-gun crowd wants. So go there.
Cause there isn't anywhere else left for me and mine to go if we wanna be free.
Say Big Brother all of the sudden makes all gun ownership illegal. What would life be like then I wonder?
I'm sure you would have some black market guns the crooks would have and this may still happen. What do you think would be the next tool used to massacre a group of innocents?
Their is a million ways to do these acts so just eliminating guns will just mean they move on to another form. I can see them gassing a movie theater kind of like what happened in Russia while back.
Quote from: Intercooler on July 20 2012 11:41:44 AM MDT
What would life be like then I wonder?
I would be very surprised if this didn't result in a rebellion. First within police departments as guys like the oath keepers refused orders to disarm civilians. Second in the public at large as groups banded together and you had battles over gun confiscation.
It would be very, very ugly, IMHO.
One question that went through my mind early and often was where were the CCW holders? I mean, this isn't Chicago, it is Colorado.
Cinemark has a no weapons policy, which apparently some people obey. For me, I am done with them. They will get a letter and I won't go to their theaters again until the policy changes.
At least with firearms, there's a greater chance of a miss, than a hit, statistically. Explosives are the exact opposite. If you're in the blast zone, you're hit. It would have been much easier for this guy to inflict maximum casualties had he used explosives. He obviously had the ability to do so, but didn't. It is apparent he wanted some satisfaction in the "personal kill". Stricter gun laws (assuming they worked, and he didn't have access to firearms) would have, theoretically, allowed him to kill everyone in the building. Hundreds, as opposed to the relatively few who were shot. He was determined to kill, and would have, regardless of any laws. As EdMc said, "you can't legislate against crazy". Everything he did was already unlawful.
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 20 2012 11:48:05 AM MDT
One question that went through my mind early and often was where were the CCW holders? I mean, this isn't Chicago, it is Colorado.
It seems to me that the densely populated areas of Colorado are rapidly turning in to California, at least in the mindsets of the people who live there. I'm not at all surprised that nobody shot back.
I am betting combination of Californifacation and CCW holder who do listen to instructions on stickers to become a victim by disarming.
Well we can all start be stop doing buisness with city or states that are heavy handed against guns,period.Trips,online shopping,throw it all in the pot.We know the city's and states.If not,learn.
He busted down the emergency door. He purchased the guns from Gander Mountain and Bass Pro Shops and seems to have done the most damage with the shotgun. He had a .40 and also a rifle but nothing on the makes.
After a quick and speedy trial he should be handed over to the surviving family members and forgot about.
I'd have no problem putting this guy down. I'll supply the ammo as well.
Given the movie and the show time, probably a lot of younger people there. Younger people are less inclined to carry or are below the legal age.
Good reminder to train for "failure to stop". If the BG seems unaffected by shots to the center of the chest, shoot the head, throat, groin areas. I watched a video of some idiot bangers in KCMO wearing vests as they went about their day. That was another reminder.
It was a Remington 870,AR15 and 2 .40 Glocks im reading.
This guy has some great videos for different situations.
Here's a response for you:
Quote from: Intercooler on July 20 2012 08:28:58 PM MDT
From the Aurora PD Chief of Police -
Is there something missing here?
My cut and paste won't work here. We are character limited I think.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8289910&postcount=77
Report is in there and he had full armor on.
I wish they would stop using the term "Assault" rifle,it's wrong and getting old.It's an unfortunate situation and loss of life.One can only imagine the familys suffering.But,it's gonna be a media delight against guns as we know it will.There will be frenzy buying from this point.That Small Arms Treaty,it's been tight lip and no real chatter that im hearing from that get together.
Quote from: pacapcop on July 20 2012 06:32:08 PM MDT
It was a Remington 870,AR15 and 2 .40 Glocks im reading.
That's what I heard. Not that it really matters, now.
Who knows, they may find out that the shooter was brainwashed by the government as part of a gun grab scheme! :o
Found this... ???
http://www.examiner.com/article/occupy-black-bloc-member-james-e-holmes-shoots-up-aurora-co-movie-theater (http://www.examiner.com/article/occupy-black-bloc-member-james-e-holmes-shoots-up-aurora-co-movie-theater)
He had 6000 rounds on him and a drum capable of firing 50 rounds per minute. This may all be over him not being able to find a job after getting his Master's degree. He's a nutcase too but that may have been his motivation.
I think Gerald Celente once said"When Americans have nothing to lose and lose everything,they will start losing it".It's not the respectful old school generation who toughed it out,it's the "expectation generation" thinking if i do this ill get that.Brick Wall.
Quote from: The_Shadow on July 21 2012 09:32:36 AM MDT
Who knows, they may find out that the shooter was brainwashed by the government as part of a gun grab scheme! :o
The scary part about that is it wouldn't be surprising anymore. :(
His AR Jammed,could of been more severe.Why ill take an AK in terms of reliabilty.AR's have the accuracy though.
Normally I refer to the local paper as the fish wrapper but I have to give them credit......they reported this story first page the day after the event and now have returned to the current news on the front page. Follow ups are inside the paper somewhere. Quite unlike the 24hr a day news sources on TV or the internet.
It is a tragic, and needless event but unless they have some factual news on the subject there is no need to go on non stop with opinion and political jockeying. Unless, of course, you have an underlying agenda.
You mean like CNN today, describing an AR15 as a military style assault rifle? ???
Quote from: harrygunner on July 22 2012 10:32:53 PM MDT
You mean like CNN today, describing an AR15 as a military style assault rifle? ???
So were Garands, Springfields, Enfields, Winchesters, Henry's, and centuries of smoothbores. It's political. Always was.
For some reason the main stream media hasn't made up political anti-agenda names for slingshots and bow/arrows. Maybe there's hope. ::)
I'm reading the shooter was not wearing body armor. If true, we need more illustrations of what journalists perceive.
Like the "all firearms are AK47's", we need some showing an ammo carrier vest, a photographer's vest and Mr. Rodgers' sweater all being reported as body armor.
yeah...Columbia makes a "Ballistic Vest (http://www.rockymountaintrail.com/detail.aspx?pid=105563&rwvars=/Columbia/Men%27s_Ballistic_II_Fleece_Vest/WM6648&ocid=527467&coid=378895&utm_medium=DataFeed&utm_source=Googlepla&utm_content=ColumbiaMen%27s_Ballistic_II_Fleece_VestAbyss~India_Ink~Squash-439,Small&gclid=CJWL1cHBsLECFcldTAod3DUApA)"
Photos of Aurora scenes, including some of suspect's gear.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2012/07/20/mass-shooting-aurora-colorado-movie-theater/5738/
The AR15 photographed did not have a drum attached. Can anyone identify that helmet?
--------
Side note, one officer was carrying a 1911 in "Condition 1".
The helmet looks exactly like the one that was issued to me by the SWAT team I am on. On the inside it says "SPP Inc. Military Combat Helmet" I'll look around and try to find the article I read were the company he ordered from said what they shipped him.
Here's my piece on the CO shooting thing: I think it's great that some of the men in the theatre stepped up and acted like men. I'm not going to deny them that.
Where were the armed citizens? Everyone (not including criminals, and mouth breathers) needs to be armed in 2012. Period. Body armor or not, that chicken shit coward would not have liked 50 armed citizens shooting back!
No matter what "gun laws" are in place, bad guys always have guns, and the police are too little too late. They cannot protect you 24/7. Don't be an idiot.
...
This might sound shitty, but these people were victims when they left the house that night. Unarmed sheep with no situational awareness = prey. Quit being prey people! This shit happens every couple of years, and no one does shit about it. VTech is still a "No weapons" campus, even after what happened there. Blows my mind.
Is critical thinking a thing of the past? Am I the only person thinking this way? Are the people in this country really this lost?
That's my rant. I pray for the victims and their families. I'm hopeful, someday, people will want to become victors instead of victims.
What would you say is the capacity of the pictured AR magazine? I had a debate with my Cousin who is big on wanting more gun legislation yet I showed him a quick reload video... he wants a pistol now.
Your cousin shouldn't be allowed to have a pistol if he's in favor of ANY gun legislation! Hope he comes around.
I agree. He really irks me and his biggest gripe is high capacity magazines followed by AR/AK style rifles being outlawed.
I put up those two videos and he changed his tune a little.
I have dumbass family as well. As far as I'm concerned, they are dead to me. If shit hits the fan, I will NOT stick my neck out for them. I'm fed up with stupid people, and honestly the world will be better without them. Might sound harsh, but F-'em you know?!
So, the wife and I both had some wierd thoughts as we were watching the CO stuff on t.v. and without sounding crazy, we came to a wierd place.
There's been allot of talk going around about this UN treaty and what not. Awhile ago, I told my wife that an event would happen, that would give the gov't the crisis it needed to do something stupid(false flag event), enact the dark parts of the Patriot Act and Police state and all that. I made the prediction, that there would be another 9/11 at the olympics. After seeing some events unfold (that I don't want to get into just yet) after this CO business, I started to get an uneasy feeling. The kid that did this, what did he have to gain from this. His life seemed pretty good, and usually if you are willing to take a life, you're putting yours on the line. Why would he do this? Over and over in my head, I kept asking WHY? He's never worked a day in his life, what problems could be this bad.
So, my wife says, well they have his journal, and they've said some of the things in there, and he was disturbed. I had two follow up questions to her response. 1- why are they being so open to the public with evidence (they want you to think he's crazy), and 2- someone could come into our house, anytime of the day and plant whatever they wanted to, or not plant it and just say they found it in there.
More and more I think about this, I remember reading something a long time ago. I wonder if there is a video? Sure enough there is.
This can apply to Columbine, Vtech, Texas, John Lennon, MLK, JFK.............on and on. Anyone who deviates from what the mass media tells us is called a "conspiracy theorist" to make us think that that person is crazy. You can take vulnerable people, and make them you pets. The military does it, and so do street gangs. So without any more rambling, I'll just post the video. Some of you will think this is crazy, but for those of you who have studied history outside of liberal indoctrination camps(public schools), you will know allot of this already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i46RI2twVao
'357_Sig' Thanks for that info.
Sad to say, I'm looking up helmet specs on Internet. If I'm ever in a situation like that, regardless of the perp's motives, it's good to know how "hard" such protection is.
Looks like a knowledgeable person would still shoot the helmet if that's the only shot available. They're primarily intended to deflect fragmentation and shrapnel.
Found the V50 specification less than comforting if I were wearing a helmet. That's the speed of a 9mm, where half penetrate and half are stopped. :o
At any rate a square hit to the helmet from 180-200gr 10mm might have gotten his attention.
Same with Kevlar vests. A solid hit from a .40S&W may not penetrate, but would displace the Kevlar enough to produce a significant injury.
I'm concluding one should take the shot if the chance appears. Don't be intimidated by the garb a psycho might be wearing.
In a larger sense, I was addressing the sense of hopelessness that was discussed on other sites when dealing with an armored assailant. Some people were under the impression the perp had armor covering over his legs, groin, chest, throat and head.
That turned out not to be true. But, even if it were true, the impression a handgun is completely ineffective is false. And if one determines that it's fight or die, their efforts are not automatically fruitless.
I read a post on another forum I visit occasionally that really struck home to me.
It isn't about being armed.
It is about having a self-sufficient mentality. Considering how you would deal with threats in any environment.
A couple of face's full of coca-cola and popcorn followed by a 4-5 man rush as soon as he appeared would probably have stopped this.
This gets back to the philosophy that there aren't dangerous weapons, there are dangerous people. Do we train to be a danger to those who would harm us in any situation.
I fly quite often. No gun. In the last 4 months I have been to France twice and Columbia once, for a total of 3.5 weeks out of country. It goes without saying, but no gun in those places. And no knife either since I don't check bags. My only friend?
(http://fellingfamily.net/images/tacticalPen.jpg)
All of us go places from time to time that are not only not gun friendly, but quite illegal to carry into. (US Post Office, I am looking at you, and your cousins the federal buildings.)
I pray each day that I am never in this type of situation. I was a hostage once many years ago. The situation resolved without violence.
I hope if I am ever in this type of situation, I will be maintain a self-sufficient mentality and use any tool available to resist.
My buddy would tell me that he runs first and will ask questions later. I just can't get with that mentality. Seems that's what everyone does these days.
I don't know what I would of done in that situation but I know how I think, how I approach day to day situations.
There is a time to retreat, but that is very different from running away. A retreat is a tactical or strategic move to preserver resources in order to more effectively continue another time/place.
Running away is hoping someone else will fight for you, or the aggressor isn't after you specifically.
Quote... there aren't dangerous weapons, there are dangerous people.
Good post.
I trained with a California police department with a strong training program. The trainer was pro-CCW. Took all the classes up to "Advanced" where I was paired with an officer as we moved and shot through and around barriers. Phoenix seems to be the place that wants to validate my training. Had a few encounters there, including one where I thought I'd actually have to pull the trigger. Responding to those situations felt "natural" because of the training.
Now, I'm thinking I want to take some classes about more extreme situations. Not so much about shooting or CQC in those conditions, but about assessing and responding to them.
Quote from: harrygunner on July 27 2012 10:49:34 AM MDT
Now, I'm thinking I want to take some classes about more extreme situations. Not so much about shooting or CQC in those conditions, but about assessing and responding to them.
This. Alot of it is verbal.
The shooting in Colorado is the exception. We are more likely to be struck by lightning twice I read somewhere.
But, having the ability to read a situation, and in an encounter to de-escalate is a big plus. And one, that from my observations on both sides of law enforcement, is lacking in far too many people.
Quote from: hillbillyhans on July 27 2012 12:28:07 AM MDT
Some of you will think this is crazy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i46RI2twVao
The scary part to me is that some people will believe stuff like what's in the video is crazy. And that's just what we know, on top of all kinds of other stuff we know. I am rarely if ever surprised by anything I hear or come across anymore. What worries me is what they haven't let out of the bag yet. I figure what we come across is probably a fraction of what we wish we knew, then there are those that just don't want to know for fear of disrupting the fairytale mindset they live in.
I think some of the old addages are true and should be held dear. For example(s): Hope for the best and plan for the worst. Always be on your guard. Pay attention (this ties into what sqlbullet was saying about "the ability to read a situation, and in an encounter to de-escalate"). And so on...
Of course there will always be those who will simply choose to believe "it" will never happen to them. And that's fine. Everyone is free to choose how they should handle their own life. Funny thing is they are always most surprised when "it" does happen to them. For some of the rest of us who plan for "it" to happen, even if it never does, are generally way more than a couple steps ahead if/when "it" does go down. Mentally prepared and not living in a fairytale world are half the battle I think. Well, having a tools around like knives and firearms doesn't hurt either. ;D About those cannons... :P
Anyway, blah blah blah, I'm just preaching to the choir here. :-[
Quote from: REDLINE on July 27 2012 03:37:09 PM MDT
Anyway, blah blah blah, I'm just preaching to the choir here. :-[
Sure, but even weathermen talk about the weather. Discussion is healthy.
True. Thank You.