I was given a bag of 30-06 reloads that I believe were found at an estate sale.
Head stamps are mixed as are COL's but they are all soft points. They are as follows:
19 pieces: TW42 headstamps, COL range: 3.336-3.340
16 pieces: LC 61 MATCH, COL range: 3.266-3.274
6 pieces : SL53 COL range: 3.266-3.275, one was 3.313
1 piece : FC 30-06 SPRG COL : 3.165
1 piece : RP 30-06 SPRG COL : 3.196 ( primer was spent, pulled bullet - no powder)
1 piece : 30M2, RD, 58 COL : 3.205
1 piece : WRA 43 COL : 3.196
1 piece : TW 54 COL : 3.220
I was thinking, for now I'm just going to pull the bullets and hang on the them, an keep the brass, I have a 30-06 but do not plan to reload for it in the forseeable future. Now, what would all do with the unknown powder? I don't have a scale at this point in time to weigh bullets/ charges but I do know I don't trust these rounds. I pulled one of the SL53 rounds just to have a look at the bullet/powder, picture attached. Also, is any of the brass notabe? I know RP is Remington, FC federal, LC lake city but he rest I'm clueless, maybe Winchester Repeating Arms (WRA)? Either way, I have some free bullets!
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How many grains of powder is it? ???
I don't have a scale yet to weigh it, that's why I only pulled one, just to see. It's adds to the mystery! LOL, does it jump out to you as any specific powder? I know a weight would help a lot and a higher quality pic, I apologize. I figure they're just someone's old hunting loads.
The powder looks like RamShot Hunter?
(http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/documents/powder%2000000097/SP_Ref__692_10x.jpg)
Big game?
(http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/documents/powder%2000000096/SP_Ref__691_10x.jpg)
???
Did they have any data from the loader who did them?
There could be many different powders I'm just guessing here?
The granule size looks pretty close but mine are more flattened than round like the hunter and big game. I'm going to email you a little better pic that you can zoom in on, its too big for me to attach.
Im sure you're right, there are tons of different powders it could be. I've got no info on the loader, none at all, it's a friend of a friend of a friend type situation. The rounds were given to me because no one else wanted to mess with them so I figured it'd be fun to take them apart and at the least get some free .308 bullets out of the deal 8)
The better picture you e-mailed me, seems to show more of a flattened ball, with some elongated kernels and some teardrop pieces...
I would yank the bullets, dump the powder, and reload them myself.
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 23 2014 06:15:00 PM MST
The better picture you e-mailed me, seems to show more of a flattened ball, with some elongated kernels and some teardrop pieces...
Agreed. I think your guess at Accurate 2700 is pretty spot on. I'll lay a rule down this evening for mm comparison of the flakes. Also, the link you sent is very interesting. Youre right, the drop down menu's were tricky but having figured it out theres alot of info on there. Thanks! If it is indeed 2700, accurate's website shows loads from 43.9 all the way up to 64.7 grains so I could end up with 2900+ grains of excess powder to "dispose" of, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm what to do with it. They show TAC loads ranging 40.1-56.8grains. Interesting.
Quote from: gandog56 on February 23 2014 06:46:33 PM MST
I would yank the bullets, dump the powder, and reload them myself.
Indeed. This is the plan. I'm going to try and wait until I have a scale so that when I do take them apart I can get a measurement of the charges and bullet weights. The bullets are soft points as mentioned so I'm sure there will be plenty of hunting loads to be had with them when the time comes to load for my .308win :D The cases I don't really have a use for, maybe clean them and trade them.
Pulling them down for the bullets and brass is the smart thing to do. I've seen fist hand what can happen when someone used unknown reloads. It wasn't pretty.
I'd shoot them.
I don't see any point in pulling bullets. There's nothing that could ever be said that would get me to reuse that powder but I'd use it the way it's loaded right now. I'd get them zeroed with a few shots and then use it up practicing of killing stuff.
Dont try to guess at the powder based on appearance. I know that happens a lot on this forum, but it's a really bad idea, especially with ball rifle powders. There are so many that look the same, including non-canister military powders.
Absolutely no way would I shoot those, especially with all the variation in OAL. If the OAL varies that much, what else is wrong with them?
I recently pulled down a bunch of 30-06 ammo, just like this, from an estate sale. There were some interesting surprises. One box had 3 different bullet weights, that all looked the same when loaded, and the same powder charges. Another round had a gas check in the case, under a jacketed bullet. A couple of them had powder that was all gummy and stuck together. I just pulled all of them, and used the bullets for subsonic plinkers in my 300 Blackout.
Quote from: Jack Ryan on March 03 2014 06:29:17 PM MST
I'd shoot them.
I don't see any point in pulling bullets. There's nothing that could ever be said that would get me to reuse that powder but I'd use it the way it's loaded right now. I'd get them zeroed with a few shots and then use it up practicing of killing stuff.
Then pulling the bullets and dumping the powder is the safest way to salvage some of the components. Heck I might have even popped the old primers out and used new ones. Who knows how that ammo was stored or in what conditions?
Quote from: Yondering on March 03 2014 06:36:47 PM MST
Dont try to guess at the powder based on appearance. I know that happens a lot on this forum, but it's a really bad idea, especially with ball rifle powders. There are so many that look the same, including non-canister military powders.
Absolutely no way would I shoot those, especially with all the variation in OAL. If the OAL varies that much, what else is wrong with them?
I recently pulled down a bunch of 30-06 ammo, just like this, from an estate sale. There were some interesting surprises. One box had 3 different bullet weights, that all looked the same when loaded, and the same powder charges. Another round had a gas check in the case, under a jacketed bullet. A couple of them had powder that was all gummy and stuck together. I just pulled all of them, and used the bullets for subsonic plinkers in my 300 Blackout.
I agree, the guessing the powder bit is purely for sport, I don't plan to use any of it for loading, Ill probably keep it on hand though, never know when it will come in handy for some other non firearm related application
Sounds like you had a nice little mess on your hands! a gas check on a jacketed bullet is pretty impressive LOL thats the type of stuff i'd be affraid of. I only pulled 3 and one had no powder in it. What did you do with the leftover powder from your batch? Having made cheap blackout rounds I'd say you made out alright! I plan to get into the caliber in the future as it's an awesome concept.
Quote from: gandog56 on March 04 2014 06:13:26 AM MST
Who knows how that ammo was stored or in what conditions?
Exactly. As far as I know they were purchased in the ziplock bag they were given to me in. Guess they came out of a box that was in someones attic of basement, I have no idea as they've been through a few hands.
When this thread started, I was trying to have BT8850, learn from the experience. The pulling of the bullets and taking notes could yield some useable data. Even though it is just one round, the powder still looks to be pristine, I was hoping he could weigh the bullet, powder charge to get a feel for the charge weight being used with what bullet weight.
Yes, I would agree, it would be safer to pull them...that it is not the best idea to just shoot them with no information. But I am an inquisitive person. I would measure each and document charge weights, make observations to see if the powder is the same or is there different powders. I would possibly reduce one of the loads and test with it, placing some trust, that the handloader wasn't a total idiot. But like Yondering, I have seen some stuff that makes you go "What The Hell", pieces of foil, cigarette filters, small rocks, tumbling media, bad powder, extreme charge weights (high and low), bad primers (reloaded without removing the old primer, no primer installed, and as in the pull-downs the primer compounds being gone and mixed in the powder) The infamous "Yellow Pixie Dust". I just like to learn from things.
All that being said, yes the safest thing is to salvage the brass bullets as far as the powder that's the mystery piece of the puzzle and it would make good fertilizer or fire starter... ???
Quote from: BT8850 on March 04 2014 09:26:47 AM MST
What did you do with the leftover powder from your batch?
I just wrapped it in a paper towel and set fire to it in the driveway. Kinda fun to watch stuff burn. :P
H STAMP CASE LENGTH BULLET WT BULLET LENGTH POWDER CHRG COAL
SL53 2.483 150.1 1.067 ? ?
SL53 2.482 150.1 1.067 ? ?
SL53 2.485 150 1.0665 48 ?
SL53 2.483 150.2 1.0395 48.8 3.266
SL53 2.479 150.3 1.034 49.3 3.3125
SL53 2.483 150.2 1.0375 49.9 3.3165
TW 54 2.497 165 1.142 C NONE 3.22 (live primer)
RP 2.487 149.8 1.093 C NONE 3.196 (spent primer)
WRA 43 2.489 150.2 1.0485 C 49.8 3.1965
30M2 RD52 2.482 149.5 1.061 C 49.1 3.206
FC 2.486 150.1 1.087 C, BT 51.4 3.1625
LCMATCH61 2.487 180.3 1.280 BT 48 3.337
LCMATCH61 2.492 180 1.276 BT 47.7 3.3365
LCMATCH61 2.493 179.9 1.2715 BT 48 3.3395
LCMATCH61 2.485 180 1.2745 BT 48.3 3.336
LCMATCH61 2.491 180.1 1.28 BT 48.6 3.34
LCMATCH61 2.482 180.2 1.275 BT 48 3.3365
LCMATCH61 2.487 180.2 1.276 BT 48.2 3.3365
LCMATCH61 2.489 179.9 1.264 BT 48.2 3.338
LCMATCH61 2.488 180.1 1.257 BT 47 3.3365
LCMATCH61 2.4875 180.1 1.237 BT 47.2 3.3365
LCMATCH61 2.489 180 1.256 BT 48 3.337
LCMATCH61 2.49 180 1.2775 BT 48 3.3385
LCMATCH61 2.4835 180 1.254 BT 47.7 3.3375
TW42 2.483 150.1 1.004 49.6 3.296
TW42 2.4835 149.6 1.002 50.7 3.273
TW42 2.482 150 0.9945 49.9 3.27
TW42 2.482 150 1.0045 50.3 ?
TW42 2.48 149.8 0.9965 44.8 3.2705
TW42 2.485 150.3 1.005 49.3 3.266
TW42 2.487 150.4 1.007 49.9 3.275
TW42 2.483 150 1.011 49.9 3.274
TW42 2.484 150.1 1.0055 48.9 3.271
TW42 2.487 150 1.003 50.4 3.2675
TW42 2.484 149.8 0.995 50.3 3.266
TW42 2.485 150.4 1.006 50.8 3.269
TW42 2.486 150.2 1.061 BB 49 3.316
TW42 2.487 150.8 1.012 50.5 3.2725
TW42 2.487 149.8 0.988 50.6 3.273
TW42 2.484 150.7 1.012 45.6 3.273
TW42 2.482 149.6 1.005 50.4 3.268
TW42 2.485 149.5 1.009 47 3.2745
TW42 2.487 149.9 0.987 41.3 3.2695
Okay, so here are some numbers from the bag of shells. Apologies upfront, its hard to read because copying from excel didn't work out so well. All weights are in grains, measurements are inches. All projectiles are .308 diameter and soft point. In bullet length column bt = boat tail, c = canellure groove, bb = beveled base, if not noted they were flat base no with no groove. Question marks represent measurements I forgot to take. Most of this data is meaningless, it just gave me some practice using my new scale and bullet puller :) it was interesting to note, though, that in pulling them down, I discovered 4 different powders were used, possibly 5.
I designated them in my notes as flat ball (used only in the sl53 cases, this is the powder I initially posted the picture of), T1 (was cylinder shaped granules, very short, not much diameter, black - used in WRA43 case, FC case, and all but 2 of the TW42 cases), T2 ( same shape granules as T1, larger dia, longer, black - used only in 30M2RD59 Case), and T3 (same shape granules as t1 and t2, larger dia, slightly longer, black - used in all of the LCMATCH61 cases).
Now I say there is a possible 5th powder because if you notice in the TW42 cases there are 2 with lighter charges than the rest (44.8,41.3). Now the powder in these two cases had the same shape and size as the rest of them but they were a light grey in color and had a "stink" to em. I don't know if this was infact a different powder or just some that had been more affected by moisture or other poor storing conditions causing some sort of degradation. Almost all of these TW42 rounds had a blueish/green color sticky residue on the bases of the bullets, and some of them the powder was clumped together or stuck to the inside of the case requiring a little coersion to get it all out to be measured.
If anything to be taken from this little project, 1. free bullets, free brass, even though just a handfull 2. practice using my equipment and taking measurements etc. 3. reassuring myself why I don't trust mystery reloads.
Yes, seeing that the charges were up and down they were not hand weighed to match grade consistency.
Quotethey were a light grey in color and had a "stink" to em.
Most powders have a solvent smell to them, if they exhibited something that was harsh and not sweet it may have been deteriorated somewhat. Some older military stuff had corrosive priming mixtures. :o
The "LCMatch61" cases may have been surplus ammo?
Did they have the crimp still on the primers? ??? Most military 30-06 was crimped primers. That would also indicate they were possibly not reloads.
Now the next thing to consider, the casings themselves, inspect them make sure they themselves are not affected by any corrosion before trying reusing them.
All in all it looked to be a fun learning project, the old powders make good fertilizer. ;)
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 10 2014 08:34:26 AM MDT
Yes, seeing that the charges were up and down they were not hand weighed to match grade consistency.
I was wondering about this. Most of the powder data i've been looking at recently has been for pistol loads where -/+ .5g makes huge differences, I didn't know if it was the same with rifles or if they had more of a -/+ say 5g to make big differences in performance. The low and high of these match cases were 47g and 48.6g respectively, giving 1.6g difference, I was curious if this would be considered precise or sloppy for rifle loads, seems to be the latter. Is this the type of percision one would see from some sort of automated powder dispenser or ?? Maybe just someone getting lazy with a balance scale and calling it good enough?
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 10 2014 08:34:26 AM MDT
Quotethey were a light grey in color and had a "stink" to em.
Most powders have a solvent smell to them, if they exhibited something that was harsh and not sweet it may have been deteriorated somewhat. Some older military stuff had corrosive priming mixtures. :o
The "LCMatch61" cases may have been surplus ammo? Did they have the crimp still on the primers? ??? Most military 30-06 was crimped primers. That would also indicate they were possibly not reloads.
Now the next thing to consider, the casings themselves, inspect them make sure they themselves are not affected by any corrosion before trying reusing them.
Solvent smell is about right on the money, I couldn't think of how to describe it but that sounds about right. I'll have to take a second look tonight, I didn't notice any primer crimp but I also wasn't really looking.
I'll have a look at the cases, most of them were just dirty or tarnished, none looked to be in really bad shape.
Quote from: BT8850 on March 10 2014 11:01:33 AM MDT
The low and high of these match cases were 47g and 48.6g respectively, giving 1.6g difference, I was curious if this would be considered precise or sloppy for rifle loads, seems to be the latter. Is this the type of percision one would see from some sort of automated powder dispenser or ?? Maybe just someone getting lazy with a balance scale and calling it good enough?
That's very sloppy reloading. Might have been someone just using a dipper, or worse. The seating depths had some huge variations too, again, very sloppy.
Unfortunately, there are too many people out there who think "bullets are bullets", and that as long as it goes bang, it's working fine. That's why I don't shoot other people's reloads.