Today is yet another year since the last communications from VLTOR Wordpress http://vltor.wordpress.com/ (http://vltor.wordpress.com/)
For those that don't know this was an attempt by VLTOR at reproducing the Original Bren Ten Pistols as first developed By Dornaus & Dixon as a combat pistol with guidance from Col. Jeff Cooper. The 10mm cartridge was made by Norma.
The Bren Ten was an icon in the TV series Miami Vice miss named here as a Detonics...
(https://s20.postimg.org/5fezwxbrx/MVC-010_F.jpg)
Yet another year gone by of No News! No Guns! No SALES! But most of all a frustrated potential customer base! We the senior 10mm generation are not getting any younger, but the 10mm intrest still lives in our hearts and thru our education efforts, some of the younger generations are coming to appreciate this superb ballistic cartridge for what it has to offer.
I have moved on. If I ever see one in a gunshop for the right price I will buy it, but I am done waiting.
VLTOR torqued me off with their distribution scheme in the very beginning.
I have an FFL and sent a few communications to them regarding buying from them direct. I was less than happy with how they handled that end of the deal, much less how they've been dragging their feet with production.
Doesn't look like they'll ever build one. Oh well... plenty of other pistols out there chambered in 10mm!
Even if they DO manage to build one, I have original D&Ds so I'm not sure I'd buy one of theirs after all the nonsense!
I wonder if the Bren Ten would even still have a place as a useful modern 10mm pistol? They are pretty cool, but the design seems rather dated now. The seem overly large and bulky, with a high bore axis.
I followed the situation with you for what-three plus years, Shadow? I've rarely been as disappointed/annoyed in my adult life. I have no hopes they will come through at all.
I went to a school in Aspen in '97. I saw one of the originals in the Planet Hollywood there in a wall display. :o As annoyed as I am, I gotta be honest: if ANYBODY comes out with a reasonably priced, functional model, I'll have to break down and buy one.
My hopes were not to bring down moral here, as I was just trying to pass on the history relevent to todays date.
Yes, enidpd804, yourself, many others and myself have followed this for quite some time and actually putting money down just like many others, only to have the pie in the face! :-\
Sorry if I came off as unappreciative of the historical reference. I am not. And I always enjoy talking about the 10mm, even if it is griping about how something was handled.
To be honest though, I kinda agree with Yondering. Between the Glock 20/29, the 1911's and the CZ clones/derivatives already out there in 10mm I wonder what it's place would really be.
I would really like to see a review between the Bren Ten, or the VLTOR re-birth against a high end Tanfoglio CZ clone, like the Elite Stock or Elite Limited Pro. Especially if the $150-$200 difference in price were put back into the Tanfoglio in the form of some Henning parts, like the recoil rod and flat bottom firing pin stop.
When I consider what is out there that I can get for a grand or more, I am hard pressed to think of a Bren Ten remake as much more than a novelty.
Mishandled gigantic CF.... That company will NEVER see a dime of my money. A two year old could have done a better job communicating.
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 12 2012 08:40:02 AM MDT
I kinda agree with Yondering. Between the Glock 20/29, the 1911's and the CZ clones/derivatives already out there in 10mm I wonder what it's place would really be.
When I consider what is out there that I can get for a grand or more, I am hard pressed to think of a Bren Ten remake as much more than a novelty.
That sums up my thoughts.
Some novelties though, must be had.
It will be interesting to see if it ever becomes available to be had. I'm leaning heavily toward doubt. But, for those that really want to see it happen, I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya! :D
I think it would have been wonderful if VLTOR had re-introduced the Bren Ten, but, that looks to be an impossibility, at least at this time. What I think is much more important, and, would think possible, would be M&P, XD, and Ruger, to come out with something in 10MM!
I've said this before, and, if other 10 fans would follow my logic, maybe with enough of us, we could twist some arms. It's simple! Don't buy another 9, 40, or 357 Sig! If you have one, you have enough. Did you hear all the rumbling when the "shield" was introduced? Who cares? I surely don't. Nines, and forties, have been done to death.
Was contemplating purchasing a pocket nine recently, then after much deliberation, decided it won't get used. Who wants a pocket sized 9 for a range toy. Not me! Bought a second G20. My next purchase will definitely be a Bond Arms in 10MM! Unless of course M&P comes out with a 10, then it will be purchased. HINT, HINT.
SR-1911/10mm. Compete with 20lb recoil spring, flat bottom firing pin stop and a 28 lb mainspring.
At the current SR1911 price. That would be a great gun at an unbelievable price.
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 16 2012 06:33:05 AM MDT
SR-1911/10mm. Compete with 20lb recoil spring, flat bottom firing pin stop and a 28 lb mainspring.
At the current SR1911 price. That would be a great gun at an unbelievable price.
That would be nice. Heck, I'd even settle for one, if they charged $100 more, like Kimber does, just to have another firearm available in 10MM. Still though, what I really want to see is a M&P offered in 10. Smith, has been away from the 10 market, for way to long of time!!!!!!!!!
I'm afraid the simple fact is that WE would like to see more products offered, but WE ain't very many. ;)
By ATF stats for 2011 ~2.5 mil pistols, ~700k above 9mm to .50 cal. Around 35%.....Take out the number of .40 and .45's from that and......
Unfortunately still a boutique round.
I would be tempted for a matching Ruger SR 1911 10mm and 10mm semiauto carbine like the Deerslayer 44mag's carbines.
Quote from: EdMc on July 16 2012 07:23:35 AM MDT
I'm afraid the simple fact is that WE would like to see more products offered, but WE ain't very many. ;)
By ATF stats for 2011 ~2.5 mil pistols, ~700k above 9mm to .50 cal. Around 35%.....Take out the number of .40 and .45's from that and......
Really wish "WE" weren't such kitty cats!!!
Quote from: The_Shadow on July 16 2012 08:31:05 AM MDT
I would be tempted for a matching Ruger SR 1911 10mm and 10mm semiauto carbine like the Deerslayer 44mag's carbines.
Have you owned a Ruger Deerfield? I did! More to hate about that rifle, than not.
1. Lead bullets could not be fired through it
2. Only full powered loads would cycle the action
3. Stock dimensions are identical to the 10/22 in length of pull (ie, built for a 12 year old)
4. Absolutely, positively, no after market support, of any kind
A. No aftermarket magazines. 4 rounders is it, and they are $30+
B. No aftermarket stocks ( I just love being down on a rifle, with a stock that doesn't fit, and only shoots the hottest of loads) kicks like a H&R Topper 12 guage. After the second mag, the thrill is gone!
I have a friend who has a Deerfield carbine and I have had my share of trigger time on it. I thought it seemed like a fun gun. In some locale's there are magazine capacity limits even for deer hunting. For plinking I would want a higher capacity, but for target shooting or paper, the four round seemed fine.
Several guys at cast boolits report their guns run fine with 240-250 grain gas checked hard cast. They suggest starting with 17.0 grains of 2400 and working up.
I have run at least 1000 rounds of cast bullets through my M1 Garands and have never seen lead in the gas system.
I am not doubting your experiences with the platform, just saying there are other reports of success. Each gun is different.
Using gas checks is a whole nother ball game, and sure it will do fine. For now, I don't use GC's. I'm sure sending any firearm back to the manufacture is a not good time, but, I can assure you the time, and money, I spent sending a handgun back to Ruger was not. Would not want to have to send one of their rifles back.
Bought mine, with the hopes of Ohio, allowing rifles to be used, that shoot handgun rounds. They never happened, and, I held on to it for years, with anticipation. That day has never came, so it had to go. I have two 44 pistols to feed, don't need another hungry mouth, that only feeds on expensive rounds.
Yes...Gas checks to change the game.
And I never want to recommend something to a friend that isn't solid. I love my full size witness and it has been a good gun for me, but I always recommend the Elite series. You don't hear much bad about them.
Back to the topic, I would still love to see VLTOR get on with it, but I am not going to spend time trying to follow them anymore. If one shows up when I have money, great.
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 16 2012 07:59:33 AM MDT
Unfortunately still a boutique round.
I don't know that I would really call the 10mm a boutique cartridge anymore. Yea, I understand where it stands compared to 9, 40, and 45. But compared to 9, 40, and 45, neither the 357 SIG or 357 Magnum hardly exist either. I guess it's all what you compare it to. I for one don't count what Military and LE choose in the mix (not that you said you did). I believe the 10mm has more followers than you think.
I see boutique as rounds like 9x25 Dillon, 32 H&R Magnum, 327 Federal, 400 Corbon,..........10mm is waaaaaaay more popular than a whole lot of other rounds availble right now, and still growing enthusiastically in my view.
Maybe we classify boutique differently ;)
I use that term for any round I can't find at a local general purpose store that happens to sell ammo. Usually that store is wal-mart these days, but most kmarts fit the category as well.
I only see 10mm at stores that specialize in guns, namely local gun shops, Sportsman's Warehouse and Cabela's. Since I only see it in specialty shops, I classify it as a boutique round.
I agree, it is on the cusp of more. Compared to many cartridges it has far more popularity.
But 'til I see it in most Walmart's it is still boutiquey to me.
Quote from: Yondering on July 11 2012 05:30:16 PM MDT
I wonder if the Bren Ten would even still have a place as a useful modern 10mm pistol? They are pretty cool, but the design seems rather dated now. The seem overly large and bulky, with a high bore axis.
A comment such as this tells me that you never shot one. :o
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 18 2012 08:10:21 AM MDT
Maybe we classify boutique differently ;)
I use that term for any round I can't find at a local general purpose store that happens to sell ammo. Usually that store is wal-mart these days, but most kmarts fit the category as well.
I only see 10mm at stores that specialize in guns, namely local gun shops, Sportsman's Warehouse and Cabela's. Since I only see it in specialty shops, I classify it as a boutique round.
I agree, it is on the cusp of more. Compared to many cartridges it has far more popularity.
But 'til I see it in most Walmart's it is still boutiquey to me.
Going by the difinition of
boutique I can't argue that. I guess my point is more along the lines of; boutique or not doesn't make something rare which was the way I first took it you were going with it.