Hodgdon's 2014 Annual Manual just came out and shows some loads for a NEW Powder...CFE Pistol. Some loads are shown for 10mm and look like the are in the upper spectrum of performance>>>>>
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/ScreenShot008_zps3c424928.jpg)
Pressures aren't at the top end for the max loads so the bullets may be able to be safely pushed faster...
The Burn Rate of the Hodgdon's CFE Pistol is shown as being between Winchester AutoComp (faster) and RamShot Silhouette (Slower) http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html (http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html)
Interesting, thanks for the info.
Wow. Those numbers look great for an "on the book" load.
Now with the introduction of this new power I will need to obtain some for testing and adding to the picture files... ;D
They also show some use in 327 Mag, 380Auto, 9mm, 38Super, 38SPL & +P, 357Sig, 357Mag, 40S&W, 10mm, 44SPL, 44Mag, 45Gap, 45ACP, 45 Colt.
This looks like a great all around pistol powder. Can't wait to try it. Vihta Vhouri powders have all but disappeared lately.
Here is a little info from Hodgdon and they speak to the supply issues...
Seems like they would have given it a different name so as not to get confused with CFE223, even though it is called CFE Pistol. Sounds interesting, kind of universal for me. I'm new and don't go past mid range with any of my loads.
Agreed, but at least it's not as confusing as their Clays, Universal Clays, and International Clays powders.
OK totay, I managed to buy a pound of Hodgdon CFE (Copper Foul Eraser) Pistol powder. :o
It is very fine flatten ball with a silvery to dark grey look. It has a similar appearance to AutoComp... ???
Here are a few pictures of the CFE Pistol Powder.
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0343_zpsdfdb7e64.jpg)
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0344_zpsdbb6fe65.jpg)
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0345_zps227bc937.jpg)
I will have to test some of the available data to see how it works and how close to publish velocities I get and if the pressures and cycling of the pistols.
I am also wanting to develop some loads in the 9x25Dillon project. ;D
I've also got a pound of it. I don't think I'm going to use it for 10mm, but I am working up some 9mm and 45ACP loads.
The LGS actually has some :o
I was looking at it for other cartridges, it shows a standard pressure230 gr 45 auto load at 934 fps, and a pressure of 19700.
I'd like to make a coment on the video. The real question that needs to be asked is NOT the worn out "why can't I find powder", but why in the last 5 years that powder has been unavailable, haven't you built a new building and doubled your manufacturing base? Him stating that 2014 and 15 will be more of the same is a VERY lame statement. I just can't believe that the ammo component manufacturers have not stepped up and really increased production with new facilities. They are the most unwillling group to satisfy their customer demand I can think of. Any other market and it would be flooded with new production by now, after all they have had YEARS to build new plants. If I didn't enjoy shooting so much I would boycott the industry for the lack of supply and the willingness of them to let their sonxumer get gouged by the local dealers for years by marking up prices sky high. The NRA (I'm a life member) hasn't dealt with the subject. It has been swept under the rug. In the meantime we get ripped off by local dealers and online dealers while the manufactures turn a blind eye to the whole thing.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if I went to the Shot Show I'd go off on every single one of them as they are helping to kill off new shooters by making it too expensive to shoot. OK, I will stop ranting now, but I know you guys understand what I'm trying to say. :)
Spkrdctr, I understand your frustration, but the demands are slowing down somewhat...to have them build new plants, just to shut them down as demands drops, would also increase prices of the products. Things will get better and better soon and already getting better, but as for now, people are buying for the quick turn into a profit purchases, impulse buying, stock piling and panic buys along with those who would normally need supplies.
Add to that many many new shooters and consumers to the marketplace, all scrambling to get supplies, "O"Communist is the best Gun salesman ever! Worst President ever for America's freedoms! :o
Chemical plants are not quick to build and are not very cheap either
Not to mention the burden sum over regulations of the chemicals and facilities... :(
Quote from: The_Shadow on May 19 2014 05:44:16 PM MDT
Not to mention the burden sum over regulations of the chemicals and facilities... :(
Might explain why most powder is produced in Europe. Far too many regulations in the US.
A while back there was an explosion at a plant Belgium...http://bearingarms.com/will-a-belgian-gunpowder-plant-explosion-affect-the-u-s-ammo-market/ (http://bearingarms.com/will-a-belgian-gunpowder-plant-explosion-affect-the-u-s-ammo-market/)
Maybe why we don't see as much Accurate Arms Powder ???
The shortage is better for the industry overall; follow the money. (I said industry, not consumers!) A shortage makes people buy stuff they wouldn't normally buy, at higher prices than they'd normally pay.
Who here wouldn't buy a brick of .22 bulk ammo for $20 if you found it, even if you didn't need it? Compare that to a couple years ago, I'd see bricks on the shelf for $12 and walk past, thinking "nah, don't need any more today".
As a manufacturer, you just cannot just build plants to satisfy temporary shortages. That can only be done when you can demonstrate long term demand that will make it a wise investment. I believe all our ammo/powder/primer producers have increased production, and done so in the face of more and more red tape and uncertainty from government agencies.
I'm speaking of myself here, and I may or may not be typical. I used to buy 1 lb containers of powder. I now buy 4 & 8 pounders because its not assured I'll be able to find it if I run out. Heck, I get twitchy when I'm down to 1 pound left now days. Same goes for primers, bullets, brass.... I have maybe 15,000 upscale 22LR on the shelf too. I haven't over paid on anything, but I can shoot when I want. If everyone is similar to me, alot of the shortage is on our shelves as saftey stock. I suppose you can call me a hoarder, but that is what panic buying is all about. You have to fill your needs when the opportunity presents itself instead of when its truely needed.
It will get back to normal, at least I hope so. We will see what happens when the next president hits office. We'll see how many mass shootings happen in gun free zones. We'll see how the regulatory agencies ban lead, or other chemical compounds necessary to make our products. That makes for great fodder for the scalpers to drive up black market prices, but I don't buy from them. I made a list and check it twice, if they took advantage of their customers by doubling their prices or worse, I'll pay a bit more to buy from those that maintained their moral business practices.
Greg
Quote from: Geeman on May 22 2014 05:12:47 AM MDT
As a manufacturer, you just cannot just build plants to satisfy temporary shortages. That can only be done when you can demonstrate long term demand that will make it a wise investment. I believe all our ammo/powder/primer producers have increased production, and done so in the face of more and more red tape and uncertainty from government agencies.
I'm speaking of myself here, and I may or may not be typical. I used to buy 1 lb containers of powder. I now buy 4 & 8 pounders because its not assured I'll be able to find it if I run out. Heck, I get twitchy when I'm down to 1 pound left now days. Same goes for primers, bullets, brass.... I have maybe 15,000 upscale 22LR on the shelf too. I haven't over paid on anything, but I can shoot when I want. If everyone is similar to me, alot of the shortage is on our shelves as saftey stock. I suppose you can call me a hoarder, but that is what panic buying is all about. You have to fill your needs when the opportunity presents itself instead of when its truely needed.
It will get back to normal, at least I hope so. We will see what happens when the next president hits office. We'll see how many mass shootings happen in gun free zones. We'll see how the regulatory agencies ban lead, or other chemical compounds necessary to make our products. That makes for great fodder for the scalpers to drive up black market prices, but I don't buy from them. I made a list and check it twice, if they took advantage of their customers by doubling their prices or worse, I'll pay a bit more to buy from those that maintained their moral business practices.
Greg
Fact remains we don't produce crap in America anymore for what ever stupid reasons the over educated bean counters and cloak and dagger investors think they are entitled to. As a poor investor and researcher all of consumer powder is made off shore. Or in Canada. It's insane. I work with several US arsenals and ammo plants. It seems the only thing we make are high explosives. And over priced ordnance. China makes the electronics the UK, Canada and Australia makes our small arms powder. What in the hell is wrong with that picture?
We really have turned into a lazy and greedy lot in America. And then wonder why.
Unfriendly business climate 'round here?
Business is evil mentality?
Regulation nation?
Plus I can get paid for doing nut'n welfare, and I'm entitled to everything so give it to me or I'll take it.
Greg
Has anyone chrono'd this stuff in 10mm? I tested it in 9mm and 45ACP and got the velocities I wanted (comparable to factory range ammo).
I just picked up an 8lb jug of it from Graf's as I already shot through my 1lb I originally bought.
I have some testing rounds loaded, but trying to get to the range to run them over the chrony. :-[
If I could get 1150-1200fps with 180gr out of my Glock 20, I'd be happy.
I just picked up a tub of this stuff at the gun range. Had to log on here to view this thread to make sure it would work for 10mm. Now that I have powder, I have a reason to order the rest of my reloading setup. Looking forward to hearing the results.
Tested the 10mm with CFE Pistol Powder today with the following
135 grain HST over 10.2 grains CFE Pistol seated to 1.2500"
CCI 350 primer Star*-*Line Brass (used but pass-through reconditioned)
Velocity 1672 fps from the Glock 20 factory barrel, Wolff non captive recoil rod & 22lb spring. Max case expansion is 0.4325"
Hodgdon shows 1551 fps in the book...
I'll have to test more for consistency, but I was impressed with this loading performance, pressures were easy on the brass, powder burned cleanly. ;D
Quote from: The_Shadow on June 15 2014 03:04:34 PM MDTVelocity 1672 fps from the Glock 20...
I'm impressed. Any insight you can add regarding muzzle blast/flash?
Sounds good. I'm going to test out CFE with 180gr pills. I'd like to get 1150-1200fps for range ammo.
Quote from: attrapereves on May 29 2014 02:54:29 PM MDT
Has anyone chrono'd this stuff in 10mm? I tested it in 9mm and 45ACP and got the velocities I wanted (comparable to factory range ammo).
I just picked up an 8lb jug of it from Graf's as I already shot through my 1lb I originally bought.
7.6 gn produced 1225 fps with 180 cast in Glock 20 10mm.
I had seen the CFE powder at local gun shop for 20.99 a pound and Iam still kicking.myself for not buying it, because they haven't had any pistol powder at all since and luckily I found 1 # of longshot and I have been experimenting with 180 grn projectiles now I wish I could find a powder to use 155 grn projecttiles.
LongShot Works with the 155 grain too...Georgia Arms uses 9.6 under the Gold Dots @ 1375
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/georgia-arms-155gr-180-speer-gdjhpp-pull-downs/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/georgia-arms-155gr-180-speer-gdjhpp-pull-downs/)
Quote from: Spkrdctr on May 19 2014 02:19:02 PM MDT
I'd like to make a coment on the video. The real question that needs to be asked is NOT the worn out "why can't I find powder", but why in the last 5 years that powder has been unavailable, haven't you built a new building and doubled your manufacturing base? Him stating that 2014 and 15 will be more of the same is a VERY lame statement. I just can't believe that the ammo component manufacturers have not stepped up and really increased production with new facilities. They are the most unwillling group to satisfy their customer demand I can think of. Any other market and it would be flooded with new production by now, after all they have had YEARS to build new plants. If I didn't enjoy shooting so much I would boycott the industry for the lack of supply and the willingness of them to let their sonxumer get gouged by the local dealers for years by marking up prices sky high. The NRA (I'm a life member) hasn't dealt with the subject. It has been swept under the rug. In the meantime we get ripped off by local dealers and online dealers while the manufactures turn a blind eye to the whole thing.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if I went to the Shot Show I'd go off on every single one of them as they are helping to kill off new shooters by making it too expensive to shoot. OK, I will stop ranting now, but I know you guys understand what I'm trying to say. :)
New to the forum but not to shooting or the shooting business.....
I will also predicate my statement with the fact that I too am frustrated over the lack of components.
There are a lot of factors in growing a firearms related business. Having spent a few years trying to find money to back the growth of one of the best AR platform builders, (over $5 million in back orders) conventional money is not available due to the gun "drama" in the media and the often times "Great at making my product, not so good at managing a business".
This leaves us with venture capitalists and other financial vultures. They are not looking for the pure business interest, they seek the quick kill large profit, such as having access to patents that they can sell overseas or in other markets, pending law suits or other areas of a company that offer a quick profit with little or no concern for the running of the main business. In short, most firearms related business owners are also shooters, care about the business and the industry and refuse to participate. It also takes money to expand a business. What happens in a year or two when the business stabilizes and you have 2 million X capacity and now only 1 million X demand and cannot pay the note? Yes, I understand business is all about risk.
Another factor that I have less experience with is the EPA and the environmental aspects of building a plant that uses volatile / hazardous chemicals. While many powders are made OCONUS, global warning and other environmental concerns make it harder to expand their footprint.
Growing a business is hard enough, growing a business that is controversial makes it even harder.