Well I've had a chance to look things over.
First, the frame is junk. Cracks only appear when torque is applied to the frame. Yahoo, about $3 a shot in frame cost, as I had maybe 200 rounds down range >:(
I had a number of rounds, both loaded and fired to measure to see where the trouble may have occured. Those measurements just don't seem to lead me to answers, so I figured I'd post here for others to supply informed thoughts.
First, the load was 11.5g of Power Pistol behind a 135g Nosler bullet. I have shot 12g prior with no issues, but that was virgin starline brass. This loading was previously fired, mixed headstamp brass. Primers are CCI 300 large pistol.
Measurements, loaded rounds. (Results are VERY uniform)
OAL 1.253"
Base diameter .424"
primers seated .005" below flush
Powder was dispensed with a RCBS chargemaster, which weighs every charge. About 3 out of 50 threw .1g over, and these were returned to the hopper and re-weighed.
All of the loaded rounds I dropped into the vertical stock glock barrel dropped into position with a satisfying "clink". I have a difficult time believing the same wouldn't happen behind the pressure of the Gen4 recoil spring.
Measurements, fired rounds.
Case head .433" in 3 of four cases. .432" in the remainder.
Case mouth measurements are running in the .424" neighborhood.
Primers are not showing much if any flattening.
The KaBoom happened on shot 11 of the 15 shot mag. The next round up measured 1.242" OAL, but it was subjected to 5 digit pressures from the ruptured case, and some erosion of the lead may have also occured. The other rounds were within .001 of the original OAL.
The case would indicate either firing out of battery, or a premature unlocking of the action with the round in the barrel. This was not an overload, over pressure event. I tend to believe it unlocked early because the round left the barrel and was in the group at 7 yards.
Perfection isn't the work that comes to my mind with respect to Glock. I'm lucky to have walked away from this unhurt, except for the cost of the gun.
Greg
People love them. One thing always seems to be a common denominator from people with more knowledge than I will ever have!
Tim Sundles (Buffalo Bore)- "The new Glock model 20 comes with a recoil spring that allows the breech face to open too soon and my new Glock model 20 will get extreme spreads of about 100fps with the factory spring installed."
Mike Williard (Swamp Fox Ammo)- "Ok, here is what I have come up with for those that are interested, whoever they may be. I am going to continue to sell ammo but with the following conditions.
This may limit my sales but what is actually done with the ammo is no longer going to be my direct responsibility, although maybe shared and will require colaboration between myself and anyone that is interested in buying ammo.
All ammo will be specified as requiring a fully supported chamber and an increased recoil spring. as is required by other similar manufacturers.
These could be aftermarket or factory fully supported chambers, including match grade barrels etc. If there is any question an evaluation will need to be done to insure the barrel has a fully supported chamber. Some pistols come this way from the factory, S&W 1006 and SA XDM's come to mind.
The springs are generally available for most pistols, in the event of no spring available, a somewhat lighter load will be offered.
Each purchase will require a small consultation between myself and the buyer to understand the application and the requirements for the ammo.
I will offer a fully supported chamber barrel and spring for any glock, 1911 or other pistol that does not meet the chamber/spring requirement at just very slightly above costs.
Lone wolf offers barrels for most glocks and offers, IMO the best support overall. KKM and Storm Lake also offer for glocks and also for 1911's but at a higher price. I have dealer accounts with each of these and will facilitate a barrel for the purchaser.
Some pistols that are known to have insuficient chamber support are glocks, dan wesson, and possible others.
Each pistol model will have to be evaulated to determine the support if no other data is available.
All ammo will be listed on my site as requiring a fully supported chamber and increased spring except ammo for revolvers, which are currently offered at slightly below max book speeds and pressures anyway.
I am firmly commited to safety and high performance at the same time but cannot compromise safety for the sake of performance.
I cannot accept responsibility for the design of firearms that do not meet the criteria that is required for Max pressure ammo.
Having said that, The ammo that has been currently offered has been very successful in practically all firearms with the exception of just a few.
These few firearms will absolutely fall into the category of fully supported chamber only.
Most of the others will be eligible at the owners discretion as to whether they are functionally safe. G20 falls into this category. Its at the owners discretion. But if an issue arises, It better have a fully supported chamber and increased spring in it.
I will make the current offereings the same as before but will add my disclaimer that no g29 will be sufficiently robust without an aftermarket chamber and spring.
The same is true from my own tests of Dan Wesson. There are others and they will be idenitified and listed and I grow this list.
I will post this in my terms of service and will be absolutely clear that any use of this ammo outside of the above mentioned terms is in violation of the terms of service and will not get any support from SwampFox Ammo. Only firearms that follow these guidelines will be covered.
I will be enhancing this statement and will post it in my terms of service on my site.
Anyone that purchases from my site will have to agree to the terms of service. anyone that does not agree will be prohibited by making a purchase."
Wilson Combat- "This can't happen in a 1911. Maybe a Glock or something else."
In response to this: "Someone may have already mentioned this, but I have seen guns fire without complete return to battery, which conceivably leaves a bit more of the case exposed. Happens more frequently when shooting LSWCs."
Quote from: Intercooler on December 05 2013 08:15:04 PM MST
Happens more frequently when shooting LSWCs."
LSWC????
I'm listening, perhaps too late, but listening.
I would think the manufacturers would err on the safe side (too heavy of a spring) but I guess not.
Greg
What barrel and spring did you have on the kaboom?
The Cor-Bon 135's with 10.4gr's of Power Pistol gives 1456 FPS. Another grain might give 100 FPS increase making that a really warm load for sure.
Quote from: Intercooler on December 06 2013 02:52:33 AM MST
What barrel and spring did you have on the kaboom?
All stock Gen4
Greg
Quote from: Intercooler on December 06 2013 03:24:50 AM MST
The Cor-Bon 135's with 10.4gr's of Power Pistol gives 1456 FPS. Another grain might give 100 FPS increase making that a really warm load for sure.
Quikload show chamber pressures in the 33k psi range. It shows 12g getting close to 37k.
I did a step up loading previously and the rounds with 12g were fine as far as case expansion. You simply couldn't tell where the feed ramp was on a fired case.
The factory double tap 135 smiled three cases out of a clip load, and the cases went in the trash.
I certainly felt safer with the PP load, wrong again. Underwood 135's seemed fine too.
Greg
What's the plan? Warranty or just buying another frame?
And, have you talked to Glock about this?
It certainly sounds to me like a cap was busted before the gun was fully in battery, and that is a mfg issue. They may or may not concede the point, but worth a shot anyway.
Glock at the very least will sell you a new frame for $50-$60 if I recall from others that had the same issue not covered by warranty. If it were me I call and politely ask about a frame replacement because your was damaged, after they inspect it they may provide warranty based on some recoil spring issues and change outs. At the very least they may just make the gun whole again at your cost which will get you back in to the Glock pistol shooting again.
Call...
GLOCK, Inc.
6000 Highlands Parkway
Smyrna, GA 30082 U.S.A.
Tel.: +1 770 - 432 1202
Quote from: Geeman on December 05 2013 07:53:25 PM MST
Case head .433" in 3 of four cases. .432" in the remainder.
Case mouth measurements are running in the .424" neighborhood.
Primers are not showing much if any flattening.
FWIW, from my own testing i found that i was not comfortable going beyond 0.428 on the casehead for a fired case, this was using new starline brass... i based this on measurements from Parabellum Research 200gr production rounds going at 1250 fps...
Rapid fire shots or slow fire?
Quote from: mlk3454 on December 06 2013 09:36:33 AM MST
Rapid fire shots or slow fire?
Slow. I'd say two seconds per shot.
Greg
Quote from: Intercooler on December 06 2013 06:28:26 AM MST
What's the plan? Warranty or just buying another frame?
I'm working my way through some big disapointment. I was expecting a safe firearm, and I need to be confident before I will consider using it again. Glock frowns on aftermarket parts. It sounds like I need a stronger spring to make it safe.
I let someone else shoot it a couple hours before it went bang. Do you know how bad I would have felt if it failed in his hands?
I'll contact Glock early next week and see what they say. I guess its likely both trying warranty AND getting another gun. The more the merrier.
Greg
Greg
Quote from: Geeman on December 06 2013 05:41:24 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on December 06 2013 06:28:26 AM MST
What's the plan? Warranty or just buying another frame?
I'm working my way through some big disapointment. I was expecting a safe firearm, and I need to be confident before I will consider using it again. Glock frowns on aftermarket parts. It sounds like I need a stronger spring to make it safe.
I let someone else shoot it a couple hours before it went bang. Do you know how bad I would have felt if it failed in his hands?
I'll contact Glock early next week and see what they say. I guess its likely both trying warranty AND getting another gun. The more the merrier.
Greg
Greg
Having recently purchased the same gun, I am interested to know the outcome. You definitely need to give Glock a chance to evaluate and remedy the issue before trashing the brand IMHO. I did buy the 2 port LW barrel too though.
One thing I don't do with the warm stuff is Cowboy shoot. Nice pause between shots because you never know.
#1 - The Nosler 135gn JHP is a near worthless bullet in 10mm/.40. It can go real fast and be near worthless concerning construction and SD. And this is one of the few bullets that SD really makes the difference. In this weight and caliber a so so 125gn .357 mag really is a better load.
#2 - One should be able to get a discount if they buy a Glock NIB less a OEM Glock barrel! My OEM G-20 barrel has never had a round one shot through it. It's so whore loose chamber wise I would never subject real 10mm ammo to it's dimensions. Much less .40 short&weak class ammo.
Quote from: blastfact on December 07 2013 04:53:05 PM MST
#1 - The Nosler 135gn JHP is a near worthless bullet in 10mm/.40. It can go real fast and be near worthless concerning construction and SD. And this is one of the few bullets that SD really makes the difference. In this weight and caliber a so so 125gn .357 mag really is a better load.
#2 - One should be able to get a discount if they buy a Glock NIB less a OEM Glock barrel! My OEM G-20 barrel has never had a round one shot through it. It's so whore loose chamber wise I would never subject real 10mm ammo to it's dimensions. Much less .40 short&weak class ammo.
Why don't you tell us what you REALLY think :P
Greg
Pics
One side
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-gDcjr7X/0/M/i-gDcjr7X-M.jpg)
The other side, never found the missing piece.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-VHStkjH/0/L/i-VHStkjH-L.jpg)
It won't go back together. Shows how big the missing piece was.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-snD39Mz/0/L/i-snD39Mz-L.jpg)
The chamber with a loaded round.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-9TzQ8Vn/0/XL/i-9TzQ8Vn-XL.jpg)
Above pic of case head on the blown case.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-XrHvHfs/0/L/i-XrHvHfs-L.jpg)
The rest of the spent rounds from the day
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-mHQSTMH/0/L/i-mHQSTMH-L.jpg)
That was defective PPU Brass. And striped brass support.
Quote from: blastfact on December 07 2013 05:56:25 PM MST
That was defective PPU Brass. And striped brass support.
I could be wrong, but I think any piece of brass would have blown being that far out of the chamber with that much pressure still present. I'm not saying it was top notch stuff, but I don't think any would have a prayer of holding.
Greg
If your sure of your powder load. Thats a brass failure with sorry Glock OEM barrel. While many shoot your powder in 10mm. It's not a powder I would use. Nor will I use that bullet anymore.
There is a chance that was a double detonation shot. But that is a very very slim option seeing how fast the powder is versus the bullet weight and diameter.
Quote from: Geeman on December 07 2013 06:02:02 PM MST
Quote from: blastfact on December 07 2013 05:56:25 PM MST
That was defective PPU Brass. And striped brass support.
I could be wrong, but I think any piece of brass would have blown being that far out of the chamber with that much pressure still present. I'm not saying it was top notch stuff, but I don't think any would have a prayer of holding.
Greg
I wouldn't trust PPU brass for anything but plinking loads. I've had factory loads split and they were loaded on the light side. YMMV
I would just like to say you guys scare the crap out of me ;)
Can you take some measurements of the other brass (especially the PPU's) right above the extractor groove?
I'm looking at your brass there and the Kaboom round has a different "crows foot" primer mark (very long) compared to all the rest. Actually all the ones in the box look almost identical. Something happened with the charge or the lock-up on the Kaboom round.
I joke around about "Glock gloves" often, but I have a pair of Hatch Kevlar gloves I am really fond of. Today I put them on myself and find them a great fit with full function. Lately due to cold and some questionable shooting I glove up and have gotten really accustomed to them!
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dsporting&field-keywords=hatch+kevlar+gloves&rh=n%3A3375251%2Ck%3Ahatch+kevlar+gloves
The mark is a striker drag mark most likely. The slide traveled rearward allowing the barrel to tilt down with striker still in contact with the primer. Either that or it got stamped by something else in the dynamic event.
PPU brass has shown blowouts in other incidents and not just 10mm. I am leaning toward poor quality brass, case head failure, separated case head started early ejection, by pushing the slide back causing the barrel to unlock, with brass stretching to fill the voids, venting gas pressure. The captive recoil system may also have not applied enough initial pressure to help maintain lockup!
May I ask, how you clean your brass? Dry tumble or Wet?
Do you use any polish for your brass? If yes, does it have ammonia in the formula? Ammonia is known to attack the brass chemically... ???
Quote from: The_Shadow on December 07 2013 07:06:36 PM MST
May I ask, how you clean your brass? Dry tumble or Wet?
Do you use any polish for your brass? If yes, does it have ammonia in the formula? Ammonia is known to attack the brass chemically... ???
I do ultrasonic, 1 part white vinegar to 5 parts water along with a drop of dawn dish soap. rinse well by saoking in water a few minutes. Vinegar will also etch brass, but its about 24 minutes total.
Greg
Inter and Shadow
I think we can all agree on a striker drag.
Look at the other fired brass. All of it shows the classic Glock smeared striker retraction mark. Glocks are known for this regardless of caliber or load. If you want to look for a brass bulge concerning Glock anything barrel. Just look below the lower striker/primer bulge.
Yes, the letter PPU were at the six-o'clock, dropping down with the extractor holding/pulling it to the right as it blew out against the breech face.
Look real close at the cartridge you show in this picture...
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-9TzQ8Vn/0/XL/i-9TzQ8Vn-XL.jpg)
It appears to show some stress where the sizer finishes its stroke slightly in front of the extractor groove cut. :o
Quote from: Intercooler on December 07 2013 06:33:26 PM MST
I would just like to say you guys scare the crap out of me ;)
Can you take some measurements of the other brass (especially the PPU's) right above the extractor groove?
I'm a little rattled myself.
I measured maximum case bulge on the 36 other fired cases. 6 cases measured .432, and 30 cases measured .433.
All the PPU's measured .433" other than kaboom (total of 6 cases).
Just above the extracto groove they measure .427" or .428" on the PPU's.
I repeat that Quikload shows this load at 4,000 psi under SAAMI max. A warm load, but way less than many of your factory pulldown results.
I still say either premature lockup, or not locked to begin with and allowed to fire. That bulge isn't a smile bulge. The torn brass is where the feed ramp was. The round was .124" out of battery before the pressure was released.
Greg
For the 10mm I'm a true believer in having a hammer-fired setup. It always gets me thinking maybe that is why only one Company (that I know of) offers striker-fired.
It very well could have been slightly out of battery, and not fully locked in...
As the brass is expanding, the tears starts to fold outward, it tends to pull itself further out of the chamber.
Quote from: The_Shadow on December 07 2013 07:47:06 PM MST
It appears to show some stress where the sizer finishes its stroke slightly in front of the extractor groove cut. :o
I'm using one of those defense flashlights for light on the pictures. Its a reflection.
You can see the end of the die travel in the cases, even after they are fired. You can also see the expansion of the cases here, but no smiles.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-Mq9tZDD/0/XL/i-Mq9tZDD-XL.jpg)
Greg
Yes, smooth rounded expansion on those, the loaded round in the chamber shows something but it maybe a reflection of the barrel/chamber edge... :-\
Quote from: The_Shadow on December 07 2013 08:16:05 PM MST
It very well could have been slightly out of battery, and not fully locked in...
As the brass is expanding, the tears starts to fold outward, it tends to pull itself further out of the chamber.
I say the case head separation happened after the case ruptured at the feed ramp and after the case moved out of battery by about a tenth of an inch. That's why the edges are shaped like a bulge rather than a bell. The edges were attached to the case head. When the tear happened, things came apart quickly as 5 digit pressures caused havoc in the ejection port.
Just my theory.
Greg
I disagree. Look at this pic; the case wall tore loose from the case head around the extractor groove. That's not a fault of the Glock barrel, that's just weak brass. That didn't happen
after the case blew out at the feed ramp and released pressure.
Primers aren't a great indication of pressure, but yours don't show any pressure signs, including the failed case.
I think you just learned what happens with bad brass in the 10mm. I'd scrap that PPU stuff, if it was mine.
Quote from: Geeman on December 07 2013 05:47:32 PM MST
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-gDcjr7X/0/M/i-gDcjr7X-M.jpg)
[/img]
More Pics, this time with the blown case inserted in the barrel.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-Nqck23B/0/L/i-Nqck23B-L.jpg)
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-MtZWnM4/0/XL/i-MtZWnM4-XL.jpg)
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-VVrq7SR/0/XL/i-VVrq7SR-XL.jpg)
Now about Shadow being correct. I was thinking the gun either didn't lock or unlocked early. Shadow called it right about the case head failure. The second pic shows a sharp edge the case expanded on to. That edge is on the slide, and the barrel with the failed case inside goes into a locked up position perfectly. The gun was locked during the expansion.
Greg
Quote from: Yondering on December 08 2013 06:08:11 PM MST
I think you just learned what happens with bad brass in the 10mm. I'd scrap that PPU stuff, if it was mine.
I won't shoot another PPU case. I just need to get the pistol back to functional condition.
Thanks,
Greg
Its amazing how those PPU cases unzip from & unfold in the extractor cut...I don't know if PPU brass is better now than it was in the past. It had a nasty reputation for awhile.
That brass is suitable for framing!
Quote from: MCQUADE on December 08 2013 07:24:00 PM MST
That brass is suitable for framing!
It certainly was suitable for de-framing (the glock frame) :(
Greg
Looks like they are making balloon style brass.
Glad everything is ok. Seems like the PPU brass is hit or miss on quality.
I bought 3 boxes of the stuff because I was looking for something CHEAP!!!
I just got back from UPS, and the pistol had to be returned Next Day Air. The UPS charges were more than the cost of all three boxes of ammo. In addition to the out going, I'll also have to pay for the return shipping. And I'll be responsable for the repair cost.....
I wonder how many boxes of Underwood I would be able to pay for!!! Its likely I'd be able to load 500 fresh Starline cases with the load of my choice for what this is going to cost me.
P-Pee-U ammo is not cheap as far as I'm concerned. I'll never ever reload another single case of that stuff again. I'm thinking I won't shoot the 2 plus boxed of the new stuff either. Its just not worth it.
Greg
That's a good illustration of what being "cheap" gets you. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else, but am trying to change my ways...
I have reloaded PPU brass and it seemed the case mouth would loose tension easily.
I would do a full length resize but when I pressed the bullet in (Hornady 155gr) I could use my thumb to push the bullet all the way into the case. I wonder if the case mouth
tension was a little loose the bullet could of been pushed deep in the case thus greatly increasing chamber pressure.
I quite using PPU brass.
When you look at the actual brass and case head with the primer you can see that the primer isn't even flatten.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-gDcjr7X/0/M/i-gDcjr7X-M.jpg)
I really don't think it was an extreme load. Every other sign says moderate pressure.
I'm out the shipping to Glock (next day, signature required, insured), plus Glock charged me $100 for the new frame, mag, and other small parts in the slide. I assume I'll have it back this week sometime.
Greg
Other than not using PPU brass, what's the approach for reloads/ammo?
As always I try to find a safe starting point and work up looking for signs of too much pressure. Its what I did with the load that caused the issue in the PPU case, up to 12g of Power Pistol. I still didn't see pressure signs, but Quickload showed it as max SAAMI and I didn't see a need for more.
I know you think the load is crazy, but look at the Buffalo Bore 155g load. That load shows the came chamber pressure as 12g under the 135g nosler according to quickload.
I am thinking of using new brass only, and pedaling the once fire brass. It seems to bring good prices because it is hard to come by.
Greg
For higher end loads new brass seems perfect. You could then use those for a nice plinking load.
Geeman, have you heard anything back from Glock in regards to the frame replacement?
I know I am leary of some brass and seeing several PPU blowing the entire case heads off is disturbing. I know I have handloaded several PPU brass and they are loaded with some book spec loads or slightly above. So far I haven't had any issues, but who's to say what if anything will happen! ???
Quote from: The_Shadow on December 23 2013 09:02:22 AM MST
Geeman, have you heard anything back from Glock in regards to the frame replacement?
I came home today to the repaired pistol. New frame, new mag, and some small parts in the slide replaced for exactly $100. The shipping to glock ran about $60.
Its back home and ready for use again.
Greg
Let me arm twist a little while it's all new
(http://www.tanfoglio.it/uploads/catalog/images/1jpg75.jpg)
I was thinking a Limited Pro.
Greg
Got one of those. Very nice!
Quote from: Geeman on December 23 2013 05:26:57 PM MST
Quote from: The_Shadow on December 23 2013 09:02:22 AM MST
Geeman, have you heard anything back from Glock in regards to the frame replacement?
I came home today to the repaired pistol. New frame, new mag, and some small parts in the slide replaced for exactly $100. The shipping to glock ran about $60.
Its back home and ready for use again.
Greg
So was $100 & $60 S/H total? ??? That's still better than being totally trashed out! Glock has been good about trying to make the customer happy and fix stuff up! I know of some in the past that were fixed for $60...
Merry Christmas!
That was a good price. I'm glad they took care of you.
I'm not complaining. I have more of an issue about HAVING to ship next day. $100 for the frame replacement and reworking the slide for free didn't seem bad at all.
I think the old $60 is now $100. Just inflation I guess.
Greg
Have there been any problems with the standard factory PPU load and their brass? My FFL has a ton of PPU and the price is right.
I am not interested in reloading the brass, just in range shooting.
Standard boxed PPU hasn't shown anything. When you do a reload with the brass though, any number of things could happen with it at that point.
I'm probably the wrong one to ask. I have a certain bias, if you know what I mean.
They are certainly not a hot load. Brass doesn't eject far, but it was reliable in function.
I didn't get far into the four boxes of the stuff, so my experience is limited. I even got away with a couple dozen reloads until the issue.
I have three full boxes of the new stuff, and one partial box. I have not made up my mind if I'm going to shoot 'em or get rid of them by some other method. If I do shoot them, I will collect empties and run them over with the car to make sure its the end of their use. I certainly won't buy any more, but I'm spooked more than rational there.
I think they would be fine, but for the price I can buy quality new components and have a better end product.
Greg
He takes trades ;D
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=373281356
Seem you want this Tanfoglio thing more than me.
I have the Limited Pro on watch at Davidson's. I intend to pick it up then.
Greg
Excellent!
I move out of this crappy State I will put a Glock 20 on my list but it will be a custom build. It might be a Timberwolf frame or at the very least a modified SF frame with grip reduction. I posted a picture of what I wanted close as possible the other day. It might end up with zero Glock pieces when all said and done :o
I shot PPU 10 factory no issues in the Gen 3 stock setup. Little dirty but no big deal. Same with their .40's in gen 3 G20. But I am reconsidering my carry ammo. Thee nuke rounds are fun to shoot every once in awhile but for carry I am toning it down. Id like to get the 155's at 1375 offered by Georgia Arms or 165's at 1300. Plenty of speed and pressure. just my take.
It won't be long and the PBR 135 will be out with the 155 to follow. Those might be right up your alley!
Quote from: Intercooler on December 29 2013 05:22:31 AM MST
Standard boxed PPU hasn't shown anything. When you do a reload with the brass though, any number of things could happen with it at that point.
The new factory PPU has had problems also. I had 2 cases split out of 100. It didn't feel like it was loaded that hot either.
Quote from: palabman on December 29 2013 10:57:27 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on December 29 2013 05:22:31 AM MST
Standard boxed PPU hasn't shown anything. When you do a reload with the brass though, any number of things could happen with it at that point.
The new factory PPU has had problems also. I had 2 cases split out of 100. It didn't feel like it was loaded that hot either.
I had similar results. I'm starting to think their brass is weak.
More than likely their brass is more brittle and should be annealed or heat treated. It is also possible the metalurgy is designed more for their ammo pressures than extremes and reloading uses. ???
Quote from: The_Shadow on December 30 2013 09:59:16 AM MST
More than likely their brass is more brittle and should be annealed or heat treated. It is also possible the metalurgy is designed more for their ammo pressures than extremes and reloading uses. ???
Which is weird, because I keep hearing that the euro's like their ammo in the +P range (I mean not listed as +p but loaded similarly to be). Maybe their is some anecdotal evidence to prove it but I haven't found it to be completely true, at least in their commercial offerings of non +p labeled ammo.
Or, it could just be that we red-blooded Americans like to push our 10's a little further than everyone else?!?!
The CIP (EU version of SAAMI) pressure spec for 10X25 (10mm Auto) is 33500PSI as I recall. It is true some cartridges they rate higher. But to say that in general they rate higher is not accurate. There are variations, but they seem to go both ways about equally.
Quote from: The_Shadow on December 30 2013 09:59:16 AM MST
More than likely their brass is more brittle and should be annealed or heat treated. It is also possible the metalurgy is designed more for their ammo pressures than extremes and reloading uses. ???
It looked to me like the case wall was thinner on one side. I'll try and post a pic when I get a chance.