Thought I'd share my recent experience here with coating my cast bullets to eliminate bore fouling. This is by no means my own idea; guys in Australia and parts of Europe have been able to buy commercially coated cast bullets for a while now. Here in the US though, it's just now catching on, with a lot of experimenting how to do it best.
I'm dry tumbling my cast bullets in ordinary powder coating powder, and baking them, to get a reasonably even powder coat over the whole bullet. This means no exposed lead, no lead/bore contact, and no leading (or any other metal bore fouling, just powder).
The whole process is pretty easy, about the same effort as tumble lubing, but without the wait time for it to dry. My process, from melting pot to loaded ammo, is as follows:
- cast bullets
- dry tumble in powder
- bake 15 min
- cool 5 min
- repeat tumble & bake
- push-through sizer
- load ammo
The powder I'm using is TGIC Polyester from Powder Buy The Pound. I ordered a bright green, and a iridescent green.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/molds/IMG_2297.jpg)
I use a plastic yogurt container to tumble the bullets. With dry tumbling, you can't really get too much, the excess powder just stays in the bottom. I shake the container by hand until the bullets are evenly coated. This is the second coat on these bullets:
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/molds/IMG_2298.jpg)
Then dump them out in a tray. A bit of metal screen on the bottom keeps the bullets from getting a flat spot in the coating where they touch the tray. Don't touch them, the powder comes right off at this point.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/molds/IMG_2299.jpg)
After baking for 15 minutes (the directions say 10 minutes, but my garage is cold and the toaster oven is small)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/molds/IMG_2305.jpg)
Sized and ready to load
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/molds/IMG_2304.jpg)
More bullets.
- The .30 cal rifle bullets are working fine at 2000 fps in my 300 Blackout; trying them in my 308 next. The one at the back right was recovered from a subsonic load; it penetrated about 18" of alder log, and only shed a little of the coating on the nose.
- The expanded bullet in front is from the loaded rounds in the center - 9mm 125gr Mihec mold, with modified shallow hollow point pins, 6.0gr WSF for ~1220 fps. This load needed aluminum gas checks to prevent leading with traditional bullet lube, but now the coating is completely intact around the base and bore contact surfaces with no bore fouling at all.
-The 200gr 10mm Mihec bullets on the left show how the hollow points get nicely coated too.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/molds/IMG_2303.jpg)
Thanks Yondering, there is a guy down here (Bayou Bullets) in the area that is selling his bullets with the coatings on them already.
He also sells the product to do them yourself as well.
If I recall, they are adding a acetone solvent making the powder into a slurry that adheres to the bullets, as the solvent evaporates it leaves the bullets evenly coated. Then they bake them and size to finish. I posted a link once to the video a guy made using the product.
Great info Yonder!!! i gotta give this a try ;D
edit: found some fairly priced TGIC Powder on evilbay
edit to the edit: apprently the boys on castboolits found powder coat epoxy at Harbor Freight for $6 per lb.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 27 2013 08:23:16 AM MST
Thanks Yondering, there is a guy down here (Bayou Bullets) in the area that is selling his bullets with the coatings on them already.
He also sells the product to do them yourself as well.
If I recall, they are adding a acetone solvent making the powder into a slurry that adheres to the bullets, as the solvent evaporates it leaves the bullets evenly coated. Then they bake them and size to finish. I posted a link once to the video a guy made using the product.
Yep, Bayou I think is the first commercial loader to sell these. That's the easy button if you don't cast your own.
I tried the acetone method, and didn't find any advantages over tumbling them dry. Coverage is about the same, and you have to wait for the solvent to dry before baking them, which takes longer than you'd think. That's what guys on the castboolits forum are doing though. Dry tumbling works the same, just skip the acetone and dry time, it's not needed.
I'm tumbling and baking ~ 100 bullets at a time in my little toaster oven, and found that once I get going, I can load the first 100 bullets while the next 100 is baking. I'm able to convert lead ingots into a couple hundred rounds of loaded ammo in one evening with this method.
For pretty bullets, the best method is still the normal powder coat gun of course, but that's a lot more equipment and setup time.
Are you doing the powder shortly after casting? By that I mean you are not preparing the bullets by any wash process, because they come straight from the molding process. Yes one person was using the spray on powder coating method with a slight charge to attract the powder.
These poly coating are tougher and much better lube properties and sealing than the spray paint I messed around with for the Zombie looking bullets!
I'll have to get some and try an play with this someday! 8)
Correct, straight from casting to tumbling. As long as your hands are clean, you can handle the bullets before tumbling, and don't need to wash them in solvent. I've handled most of mine before tumbling, picking out the rejects and scraping off the flash from one of my rifle molds; the powder coating still sticks fine.
8)
Nice work Yondo. I have been using these for years and had great accuracy and very little leading. They are not perfect and I still get some leading, particularly in the compenstated guns.
I'd imagine as the process becomes accepted amongst your current bullet manufacturers they will become the norm.
How about some accuracy testing ?
Yonder, have you tested out the .308 rifle bullets yet? I just bought a 7mm-08 and would like to shoot some cast where i did not have to worry about leading issues... are you still using a gas check? I was thinking of loading it down to about 2100 fps and this would just be for practice rounds only.
What is the baking temp, and can you quench them from the oven to get some hardness in antimony alloys?
Just ordered a lb.
Pretty neat!!!
CW
I have done the coating from Bayou bullets the key is to have the temp of the bullets at the 375 for at least 4 minutes I have a cheap small convection oven but need to upgrade to a bigger better one. But in my Henry (should say my sons via confiscation) Henry 45 Longcolt running coated bullets over 1600 FPS no leading.
Quote from: wifecallsmegrumpy on November 27 2013 05:14:35 PM MST
8)
Nice work Yondo. I have been using these for years and had great accuracy and very little leading. They are not perfect and I still get some leading, particularly in the compenstated guns.
I'd imagine as the process becomes accepted amongst your current bullet manufacturers they will become the norm.
How about some accuracy testing ?
Yeah, it's weird how the US is so far behind you guys in this.
My coating may be a bit thicker than what you guys buy commercially, I'm not sure. I'm getting zero leading in my pistols, but I don't own any ported barrels anymore. I don't think a brake would do anything to these bullets, but a ported barrel is still likely to cause gas cutting through the coating.
I didn't take pictures, but did some accuracy testing the other day with these coated bullets in my 9mm - I couldn't quite tell if the accuracy was better than the same bullet with bullet lube, but it was at least as good. Definitely positive results so far.
Quote from: Caneman on November 28 2013 08:24:05 AM MST
Yonder, have you tested out the .308 rifle bullets yet? I just bought a 7mm-08 and would like to shoot some cast where i did not have to worry about leading issues... are you still using a gas check? I was thinking of loading it down to about 2100 fps and this would just be for practice rounds only.
Haven't had a chance to run them through my 308 yet. I have been shooting them in my 300 Blackout though, using the Lee 155gr 7.62x39 bullet. I saw some slight leading from these at 1800 fps without a gas check, but with a check (applied after coating) they are shooting like jacketed bullets, but without the copper fouling.
I think you'd do fine at 2100 fps, but I'm hoping to push them a lot faster than that.
Quote from: sqlbullet on November 29 2013 09:26:34 AM MST
What is the baking temp, and can you quench them from the oven to get some hardness in antimony alloys?
Baking temp depends on the coating you order. I'm using a TGIC Polyester that says to bake at 400* F for 10 minutes. I'm doing 425 for 15 minutes, just to make sure the bullets heat evenly all the way through (I want them softer).
I think you can water quench them if you want, although I haven't tried. I don't think these coated bullets need to be as hard to resist gas cutting and give good accuracy, so I'm using straight wheelweight alloy and letting them air cool. (see the expanded bullet in my pic above, I can't do that with an uncoated bullet unless I use a gas check)
Update - did some shooting today with these powder coated bullets, and am very happy with the results. I loaded some 170gr .30 cal (old H&G #20 mold) in my .308, powder coated with gas checks. These are the dark green bullets pictured in my first post. These ran through my PTR 91 with no issues, and the bore was still shiny, with no lead or copper fouling. I couldn't chrono them because it was getting too dark, but used my standard 165gr GameKing load of 42gr IMR4895, which does a little over 2500 fps.
I also ran a few more mags of hot +P 9mm powder coated hollow points through my G19 factory barrel, rapid fire to get it hot. No leading in that one still, just powder fouling. This load required gas checks to avoid leading with traditional bullet lube, but I did not use checks with the powder coated load.
Thanks for the updated report. 8)
That sounds fabulous. No goo and full power rifle loads!
Man, my CETME and Garands are going to be happy! I will even test some in my 300 win mag and see what happens.
well Yonder, it looks like the CB boys are just catching up to you on your 'Dry Tumble' powder coat method here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?217443-New-wrinckle-to-my-easy-pc
a small but significant detail, powder coating powders are either:
Epoxy Resin Powder - sold at Harbor Freight
Polyester TGIC Powder - sold at PowderBuythePound.com and other places
seems like the best results are being had with the Polyester based powders...
I don't spend as much time on castboolits as I used to, but still drop by occasionally to read new stuff. Frankly I'm surprised so many people are doing this with solvents, without trying it dry.
I have not tried any of the epoxy powders yet. I'm assuming the polyester powder coating is more flexible than the epoxy though. I did hammer one of my coated bullets flat to see how the coating would hold up; it didn't come off at all, even on the hammered surface.
the "hammer test" seems to be the one most of them are doing to see if the PC was successful... i need to get a $20 walmart toaster oven while i wait for the powder to arrive
Buy the wife a new toaster oven, take the old one out to the garage. 2 birds with 1 stone. Bonus points if you don't tell your wife you needed another toaster oven anyway. :D
LOL, if only it was that easy! :)
The powder arrived today. Hopefully I will get some baked by the weekend.
I just ordered some red powder from this guy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111019990433 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111019990433) Didn't really need any more, but for $6 shipped, another color is handy for marking different loads. I don't know if this powder is exactly the same as what I've been using, but the specs look the same.
Great...More powder to buy.
Actually, thanks for the steer. I might have to grab some gray. Ideally I would like the projectiles to look as neutral as possible.
I thought of trying a copper color for that reason. I got the bright green first though, just because it shows all the imperfections better, to help me get the process dialed in.
You can mix the colors too; mixing the two I have made a grass green color.
I'm thinking about using red to mark the tips of certain loads (like my pure lead nose cast hunting bullets), by dipping the nose in the red after they're coated, and bake again.
Well, my first go didn't work so well. Partly my fault though.
Having just moved, I didn't have any scrap screen material that wasn't packed, and all our windows are new, so no busted screens to scavenge. I tried it with the boolits on some aluminum foil.
In case anyone else is tempted, don't do it.
The paint adheres great to the lead. And to the foil. Result is about 40 bullets paint adhered to a sheet of aluminum foil. The four I stood up with tweezers came off OK. The rest, the foil just tore and stuck to the boolit.
I will track down some screen and give it another, following the directions to a "t" this time.
:D
i have read that some colors seem to be attracked to the lead better than others... not sure how much merit there is to this theory, but some guys say that the gray and white do better :-\
sqlbullet, there's some stuff called "hardware cloth" that is basically a coarser mesh wire screen; you might look for some of that at Home Depot. I think maybe a 1/8"-1/4" mesh might be better than the fine screen I'm using.
at lunch today i went to walmart and picked up my $19 toaster oven:
(http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/65/57/72/00/0065577200753_500X500.jpg)
Is this the same stuff?
http://www.csipaint.com/products/powder-coatings/pro-tec-powder-paint.php
There are several types of powder paints, some are polyester some are epoxy...
There was plenty info here http://www.peridiumpowder.com/index.html (http://www.peridiumpowder.com/index.html)
http://www.peridiumpowder.com/powder_info/tgic.html (http://www.peridiumpowder.com/powder_info/tgic.html)
Has anyone tried dropping from the mold into the powdered paint?
I thought about that, however I think it would make more of a clumping mess, as it would tend to melt and become sticky.
May not apply as evenly. :-\
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 12 2013 09:56:21 AM MST
Has anyone tried dropping from the mold into the powdered paint?
I haven't tried dropping from the mold, but I have dipped hot bullets in the powder. Uneven application would be the problem, and it melts on way too thick.
I received the red powder from ebay (linked above, good buy for the quantity), and dipped the noses of some of my "zombie green" rifle bullets in the red to mark them. I tried them cold (& dry) first; it works for marking but doesn't give a solid layer like tumbling.
After baking that batch, while they were still hot from the oven, I dipped the noses in the powder. The first few worked well, and the powder melted to the nose immediately. The rest of them were cooling down though, so the powder stuck, but not evenly, and didn't melt. Even after baking, the uneven application and excessively thick red layer was evident on all of them. I think dipping them quickly in the powder, while they're hot enough, works well for marking the noses, but not well enough for coating the whole bullet.
Yondering, I was looking over several application methods and one guy doing fishing jig heads, he was using a heat gun, that may help with your tip marking. Or one of the small propane torches with pin point tip flame for brief concentrated heat source.
Yeah, a heat gun is a good idea, thanks. Just to keep them hot enough to dip the noses. The thickness is still a problem though; it might make sense to just dip them in regular paint for marking; the noses don't touch the bore anyway.
there is a pretty good thread going on right now on CB where one guy has reported barrel erosion in the first 1" or so after a thousand rounds using HF PC... some chemists chimed in and said it is possible that silica is in the coating which would act as an abrasive... they also said try to use "high gloss" PC as these most likely will not contain the silica... FYI
Good to know. Thanks.
Good to know. Yet another reason to not use the Harbor Freight powder. Good Polyester powder isn't that much more expensive.
When looking at the Harbor Freight products I saw they were epoxy based, I have seen some epoxies that would yield sparks from a grinder wheel...
Yondering I think the polyesters such as the TGIC might be the safer product...however I'm still doing some more research to avoid any issues. But my leading issues haven't been that bad either... :-\
Here is an outfit that has every color under the sun. http://www.prismaticpowders.com/
Looks like there RAL colors are Polyester based. Basic price is $11.95 a pound, but they also have closeouts the go quite a bit less.
Only one problem.
I ain't shooting bright florescent green bullets! :))
And yes I DO know I can do them in other colors! :P
I was just looking over the MSDA of the NEON YELLOW
Item: PSS-1104
Description:
Florescent yellow
(http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_4748_325xauto.jpg)
QuoteCalifornia Proposition 65:
This product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects, or other reproductive
harm.
Hazard determining components of labeling: TGIC
TGIC has been classified as "Possible Human Germ Cell Mutagen", and capable of causing permanent heritable damage in
reproductive cells on humans. Overexposure can result in toxic effects on liver and lungs.
Canadian DSL Inventory Status: All components of this product are listed on the Canadian DSL Inventory List
*Silica, amorphous, precipitated and gel (112926008 1-5%) MASS, OSHAWAC, TXAIR
*Barium sulfate (7727437 10-30%) MASS, OSHAWAC, PA, TXAIR
*Titanium dioxide (13463677 10-30%) MASS, OSHAWAC, PA, TXAIR
That's California for ya...they probably have the same warning for water! :o
Anyway, need to do me some more ZOMBIE rounds!
looking into using a clear coat finish, no color in it and it will not have the abrasives... but not sure, i need to do more research
They have clear. And it says 100% gloss. It might have less resistance? Something to think about. Would be interesting to compare MV, with color or no color being the only difference.
http://www.prismaticpowders.com/colors/PPS-2974/
http://www.google.com/patents/WO2013130360A1?cl=en
YES-Now all I have to do is figure out how to strip the lube from about 2000 rds of Hard Cast bullets that I have in stock????
Anyone have any ideas??
Doug
Remove all ignition sources! :o Wash in acetone solvent, may take multiple washings due to the high flash to vapor.
I'd use a steel container with a lid, to contain the vapor long enough to dissolve the previous lubes.
Be careful. 8)
You might want to use the liquid method of application with powder paint in suspension of the acetone to coat them.
Get the wife out of the house. And put them in the dishwasher. ;D
Actully I have the same problem. Maybe something like simplegreen in a ultra sonic cleaner. But I am sure it would work better if you could get the majority out of the grooves first. Fine wire wheel ??
I can see it now-- a wash tub and a scrub brush out side washing bullets :)) I need to contact where I get my bullets and see if they will sell them to me with out lube??? I refuse to get back into casting again--been there done that - got rid of all the stuff I had. Though I will have to git a sizer setup again >:( and a heaver C press to size them.
Doug
I ordered 500 sized, but not lubed 40cal. 180gr Hollow points from this outfit. I will try powder coating them. I was able to ask for that during the checkout, on the sight.
I will have to see how they look when I get them.
http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index
the PC will add 0.002 or so and you may need to resize them
Quote from: Caneman on December 28 2013 06:35:32 PM MST
the PC will add 0.002 or so and you may need to resize them
Will keep that in mind. If I have to size them anyway , I might just buy them as they came out of the mold.
Quote from: schtoolee on December 28 2013 10:18:56 PM MST
Quote from: Caneman on December 28 2013 06:35:32 PM MST
the PC will add 0.002 or so and you may need to resize them
Will keep that in mind. If I have to size them anyway , I might just buy them as they came out of the mold.
Yes, you'll need to size them. Buy a Lee push through sizer die, and polish it out (the insides are usually too rough), or buy one made right from Buckshot on the castboolits forum.
To remove bullet lube, lay out your bullets on a screen of some sort, suspended over a pan in the oven. Heat to 250-ish degrees, whatever your oven takes to melt the lube. You won't hurt the bullets this way, but you will have a bunch of lube in the pan, might want to line it with aluminum foil. If you don't get it too hot, it shouldn't smoke.
Wash them in acetone or laquer thinner after melting the lube off, as there will be a thin coat left on the bullets.
Yondering - Since I have to get a medium oven anyway- your idea sounds about the best. We'll check your Idea out after the first of the year
Doug
here is my first attempt at shake-n-bake powder coating, these are 10mm 200gr wfn, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, both are 3 coats:
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac331/johnelway/powder-coat1004_zpsca068ef3.jpg)
here is the process:
-up to 50 bullets in a small plastic container
-add teaspoon of powder coat (polyester TGIC is very good)
-put in vibratory tumbler for 5'
-dump on to a small mesh wire screen that is on a small cookie sheet
-bake in a small toaster oven for the required time/temp
-repeat as necessary for as many coats as you like
i ended up really liking this vendor: allpowderpaints.com
i recommend getting the resealable plastic container for $3 more
now i need to go to the range and run about 100 of these through my barrel and see if there is any leading 8)
Very nice, they look great! 8)
They look great - almost too easy - I found a way to clean the lube off my cast bullets already in stock---Pressure washer - my son has one --- stick then in a small wash tub and blast them, drain and rinse again --DONE
Doug
Great idea. But it got me thinking of something alone that line.
I have a steam cleaner. I bet, that it would work if I layed them on a screen,
and sprayed them down, until they are clean.
Quote from: Caneman on January 02 2014 08:18:56 AM MST
here is my first attempt at shake-n-bake powder coating, these are 10mm 200gr wfn, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, both are 3 coats:
Looks good! Is that the Mihec bullet? I like that one too, especially with the shallow cone hollow points.
FYI (for everyone) - check your oven temp with a thermometer. I did, and found I need to run my toaster oven at the highest setting (~550* indicated) to reach the required 400 degrees. Also, keep in mind the bullets won't reach temp immediately, so you'll want to extend the baking time. I'm baking them for 15 minutes now at 400 degrees (my powder says 400/10 min), although I was getting good results before so the curing process must be pretty flexible.
^^^ its the NOE mold with pins for 200gr WFN and 180gr HP
TEFLON SLIP GLOSS BLACK
http://www.shop.allpowderpaints.com/TEFLON-SLIP-BLACK-TSSB39344.htm?productId=1026
I like this one-check it out..
Doug
http://www.shop.allpowderpaints.com/TEFLON-SLIP-BLACK-TSSB39344.htm?productId=1026 (http://www.shop.allpowderpaints.com/TEFLON-SLIP-BLACK-TSSB39344.htm?productId=1026)
^^^ couple things to consider that may or may not be factors: 1) if the paint has teflon in it could it be considered a "cop killer" bullet and illegal? 2) guys on the cast boolits forum are suggesting black may be a color to avoid for coating bullets because the color additive may act like an abrasive on your barrel...
Quote from: ShadeTreeVTX on January 02 2014 05:01:05 PM MST
TEFLON SLIP GLOSS BLACK
http://www.shop.allpowderpaints.com/TEFLON-SLIP-BLACK-TSSB39344.htm?productId=1026
I like this one-check it out..
Doug
http://www.shop.allpowderpaints.com/TEFLON-SLIP-BLACK-TSSB39344.htm?productId=1026 (http://www.shop.allpowderpaints.com/TEFLON-SLIP-BLACK-TSSB39344.htm?productId=1026)
Good find. I'm a little concerned about teflon in high heat situations though, the fumes can be highly poisonous. I've been hoping to find a powder like this with moly instead of teflon. Don't know if it exists?
Quote from: Caneman on January 02 2014 04:39:53 PM MST
^^^ its the NOE mold with pins for 200gr WFN and 180gr HP
Have you tried a coat of clear over the yellow? I've heard it changes the look a bit.
Quote from: Caneman on January 02 2014 05:24:36 PM MSTguys on the cast boolits forum are suggesting black may be a color to avoid for coating bullets because the color additive may act like an abrasive on your barrel...
The standard industrial black pigment is soot and no, it's not abrasive. That's a machinists' tale based on the fact that every machinist knows a guy who knows a guy who had to turn something from "graphite", which is actually compressed graphite containing a mineral binder, the latter being abrasive. Also, soot in motor oil preferentially adsorbs anti-wear additives, reducing their effectiveness and thus indirectly increasing wear.
Quote from: Marc on January 03 2014 03:44:23 PM MST
Quote from: Caneman on January 02 2014 05:24:36 PM MSTguys on the cast boolits forum are suggesting black may be a color to avoid for coating bullets because the color additive may act like an abrasive on your barrel...
The standard industrial black pigment is soot and no, it's not abrasive. That's a machinists' tale based on the fact that every machinist knows a guy who knows a guy who had to turn something from "graphite", which is actually compressed graphite containing a mineral binder, the latter being abrasive. Also, soot in motor oil preferentially adsorbs anti-wear additives, reducing their effectiveness and thus indirectly increasing wear.
i dunno, they got some chemists and engineers weighing on this and they seem convincing, reviewing msds sheets and such, judge for yourself:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222947-Strange-problem-encountered-with-PD-d-bullets
Quote from: Yondering on January 03 2014 02:35:31 PM MST
Quote from: Caneman on January 02 2014 04:39:53 PM MST
^^^ its the NOE mold with pins for 200gr WFN and 180gr HP
Have you tried a coat of clear over the yellow? I've heard it changes the look a bit.
not yet, but i plan to do that as well... ordered some kawasaki green as i like the way yours look...
on the CB forum they seem to suggest using PC that cures below 400F so the lead won't anneal... on the allpowderpaints.com site they list the temp and cure time for all their paints and you can find many that cure in the 350F range...
i 'accidentally' ;) ordered an Accurate Molds 200gr wfn mold today, takes 2-3 weeks to get made then shipped... Tom, the owner/operator makes fantastic molds, i have a 10mm 220gr that i really like made by him as well
Quote from: Caneman on January 03 2014 04:48:28 PM MST
Quote from: Marc on January 03 2014 03:44:23 PM MST
Quote from: Caneman on January 02 2014 05:24:36 PM MSTguys on the cast boolits forum are suggesting black may be a color to avoid for coating bullets because the color additive may act like an abrasive on your barrel...
The standard industrial black pigment is soot and no, it's not abrasive. That's a machinists' tale based on the fact that every machinist knows a guy who knows a guy who had to turn something from "graphite", which is actually compressed graphite containing a mineral binder, the latter being abrasive. Also, soot in motor oil preferentially adsorbs anti-wear additives, reducing their effectiveness and thus indirectly increasing wear.
i dunno, they got some chemists and engineers weighing on this and they seem convincing, reviewing msds sheets and such, judge for yourself:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222947-Strange-problem-encountered-with-PD-d-bullets
I see few blaming soot (aka carbon black), but silica and quartz have been pointed out and those are most certainly abrasive.
Quote from: Marc on January 04 2014 03:40:28 AM MST
Quote from: Caneman on January 03 2014 04:48:28 PM MST
Quote from: Marc on January 03 2014 03:44:23 PM MST
Quote from: Caneman on January 02 2014 05:24:36 PM MSTguys on the cast boolits forum are suggesting black may be a color to avoid for coating bullets because the color additive may act like an abrasive on your barrel...
The standard industrial black pigment is soot and no, it's not abrasive. That's a machinists' tale based on the fact that every machinist knows a guy who knows a guy who had to turn something from "graphite", which is actually compressed graphite containing a mineral binder, the latter being abrasive. Also, soot in motor oil preferentially adsorbs anti-wear additives, reducing their effectiveness and thus indirectly increasing wear.
i dunno, they got some chemists and engineers weighing on this and they seem convincing, reviewing msds sheets and such, judge for yourself:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222947-Strange-problem-encountered-with-PD-d-bullets
I see few blaming soot (aka carbon black), but silica and quartz have been pointed out and those are most certainly abrasive.
And the silica and quartz seem to be mostly used as matting agents to reduce gloss, if I understand correctly? Seems like the problem may be with the flat/matte coatings, rather than the black color.
Well I ordered 500rds of 180 gr TCFN from Byou Bullets and should have them in about 5 days, Than I;m going to give than h^ll in the G29 and maybe the G20 -just to see for myself how well they hold in the Glock barrels and the LW barrels - by the way - does anyone know of anyone who sells hard cast hollow point bullets in 180 and 200 gr????? maybe I could set up a jig and drill some of my 220 gr hard cast into hollow points- Hmmmmmm
ps what do you think Shadow?
Doug
I'm sending you a few of my 156 grain Devastators...answer the e-mail i sent you, couple of questions... :D
Quote from: ShadeTreeVTX on January 15 2014 08:08:20 PM MST
Well I ordered 500rds of 180 gr TCFN from Byou Bullets and should have them in about 5 days, Than I;m going to give than h^ll in the G29 and maybe the G20 -just to see for myself how well they hold in the Glock barrels and the LW barrels - by the way - does anyone know of anyone who sells hard cast hollow point bullets in 180 and 200 gr????? maybe I could set up a jig and drill some of my 220 gr hard cast into hollow points- Hmmmmmm
I can't comment on Bayou Bullets, but my home cast powder coated bullets run great through Glock barrels. The main thing is to have them sized larger than the bore (you do need to slug your bore; just drive a cast bullet through it and measure).
BTW, you don't want "hard cast" bullets for hollow points. They need to be softer; standard commercial casting alloys are generally way too hard for most hollow points to function correctly.
I saw a website the other day that sells cast hollow points from what appear to be Mihec molds. It looked like he had most of Miha's best designs, which I can vouch for as I have them too; my Mihec 9, .40, and .45 hollow point molds are the best shooters I have in each caliber. Problem is, I can't find the website now. It may have been a link from here, but who knows. Keep searching, it's out there.
Edit - Doh! schooltee posted the link on the previous page, and said he bought them unsized and unlubed. Here: http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index (http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index)
Quote from: Yondering on January 15 2014 09:05:13 PM MST
BTW, you don't want "hard cast" bullets for hollow points. They need to be softer; standard commercial casting alloys are generally way too hard for most hollow points to function correctly.
This.
When I cast any bullet I want to expand, I mix wheel weight or isotope alloy 50/50 with pure lead, then add tin to reach 2% tin. In my 20lb pot that is 9lbs isotope lead, 9lbs pure and 5 oz of pure tin or 7 oz of 63/37 bar solder.
That alloy works about to a BHN of about 9-10, and if sized correctly works fine even my M1 Garands at 2000 fps.
Well - I picked up the oven from WallyWorld Black and Decker 40$ one- it pretty big but if I decide to hog wild on the bullet it's big enough to handle it, picked up the spaghetti strainer ( stainless) and I have and porcelain 30 qt ? pan that the strainer sets on just right( drill some holes in the bottom to let the water drain out- I ruined it -burned the bottom badly) - now to order the powder and I set to make a mess - I hope not but who knows - I'm looking at a pressure washer from WallyWorld for 85$ that just might be just right(electric) - my sons can blow the paint off a tank, don't know how far we can turn it down?
This is going to be fun or a big bust - hahaha
Doug
Bump -
Can you use a softer lead alloy , when you powder coat the bullets ?
Quote from: Tomcat 10 on March 03 2014 03:48:48 PM MST
Can you use a softer lead alloy , when you powder coat the bullets ?
Yes, you can get away with a softer alloy, although you don't
need to, for terminal performance. Baking the powder coating also anneals the bullets, making them as soft as that alloy can get.
BTW, since starting this thread, I've completely given up any conventional lubing methods. My two luber-sizer presses just sit there, other than using one as a gas check seater. I've been powder coating for 9mm, 10mm, 45 Auto, 300 Blackout, and 308 so far, with great results in all of them. The full power (with gas checks) 308 loads are giving impressive results, with about 2 MOA groups from my PTR91, which doesn't shoot much better than that with jacketed bullets. The 35 Whelen AI will get powder coated bullets too, when I get around to casting some more for it.
Okay so count me in for this method. Bought myself a toaster oven last night, actually the same on caneman is using (19$ walmart special). Lined the tray in it with some foil and window screen. My process was the same as described in caneman and yonderings' posts, dry tumble bullets in small container with about teaspoon of powder, dump on tray lined with screen, bake, cool, repeat. I used a toothpick to stand the bullets up as not to touch them. First coat didn't cover very well, second coat got probably 99% coverage, 3 coat sealed the deal.
I was baking for 15mins at about 425* for each coat. The powder is Sherwin williams brand, a small amount was given to me to mess with. Heres the MSDS, it is TGIC.
http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=MSDS&prodno=PLS8-C0020
Bullets are from my Lee 401-175 TC mold, they drop .401-.4015. With 2 coats of powder they measured .405, with three coats they were roughly .409. Is this about the thickness others are finding the powder adds? Also, since I now have a scale, I've weighed a few of my uncoated as cast bullets and they are typically between 176.9-177.3 grains. I only had time to weigh one With 3 coats of powdercoat and it was 178.6.
I pushed them through the Lee sizer die with a little bit of saeco gold lube on them and they pushed through pretty smooth with a light effort recquired, and sized to .401 on the money with out losing any of the coating. I also took one out on the porch and did the proverbial smash test by beating it with hammer and it didn't lose a single speck, i'm impressed.
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This post is to add more pic attachments. See below
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Now I just need to coat the rest of what I have and get to loading so I can hopefully shoot some this weekend and see how they really work! Here's a pic of the smashed one
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Someone's got "Blue Bullets"! ::)
Looking good! 8)
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 11 2014 07:25:10 AM MDT
Someone's got "Blue Bullets"! ::)
Looking good! 8)
I suppose it's better than having blue in other areas :o LOL
Thanks! Im impressed with how they look, I think they'll look pretty neat stuff in a nickel 10mm case 8) now I'm just itching to see how they shoot.
WWEEELLLL - Im one of the ones that don't cast my own bullets and I have a couple of thousand bullets I need to delube and start powder coating - I mentioned using a pressure sprayer to delube them, it didn't work (2500psi and it didn't touch the lube )--so we move to plan B, put them in the oven and heat to 250? and melt the lube off. Than pressure spray them clean - I'ed almost bet you could fire these bullets and retrieve them and the lube would still be in the grove - that stuff is hard as h*ll.
Doug
Doug, the ones I sent, were ready to go sized and lubed! ;D
Quote from: BT8850 on March 11 2014 06:56:42 AM MDT
Okay so count me in for this method...
Looking good. One comment on your pics of the bullets in the tub - up to a point, it works better with more bullets than that. I'm using about the same size tub, and usually do 50-100 bullets at a time. Having them packed together seems to pack the powder onto them better.
I don't worry much about the after-sizing diameter, although you may be applying a bit more powder than me, I only do 2 coats. Your particular powder may act different than mine though.
Quote from: ShadeTreeVTX on March 11 2014 06:22:08 PM MDT
WWEEELLLL - Im one of the ones that don't cast my own bullets and I have a couple of thousand bullets I need to delube and start powder coating - I mentioned using a pressure sprayer to delube them, it didn't work (2500psi and it didn't touch the lube )--so we move to plan B, put them in the oven and heat to 250? and melt the lube off. Than pressure spray them clean - I'ed almost bet you could fire these bullets and retrieve them and the lube would still be in the grove - that stuff is hard as h*ll.
Doug
I think you'll need to bake them in the oven, then use solvent to get the remaining lube off. Unless your pressure washer is a $$$ steam cleaner, and uses degreasing solvent too, it won't work well enough for the final step; even a light film of lube will cause the powder to not stick. I'd put them in a tub of mineral spirits, laquer thinner, or something like that, and do a few soak/rinse cycles.
Acetone may be the best solvent to do a finish rinse, prior to powder coating...
Quote from: Yondering on March 11 2014 09:15:53 PM MDT
Quote from: BT8850 on March 11 2014 06:56:42 AM MDT
Okay so count me in for this method...
Looking good. One comment on your pics of the bullets in the tub - up to a point, it works better with more bullets than that. I'm using about the same size tub, and usually do 50-100 bullets at a time. Having them packed together seems to pack the powder onto them better.
I don't worry much about the after-sizing diameter, although you may be applying a bit more powder than me, I only do 2 coats. Your particular powder may act different than mine though.
Thanks. You are absolutely right, I did about a 60 bullet run last night and used the same container, with a little more powder, and they came out coated MUCH more evenly through the first and second coat, a fine observation you've made.
WWWEEELLLL plan B was a bust ( what a mess )
SO on to Plan C - should of done it this way after Plan A anyway.
Shoot all the rounds I have the way they are and order my Cast heads unlubed.
Yes Shadow I'm using the 150's HPs in my sons short and weak M&P I don't plan on shooting anything lower than 180's in my 10's.
I did find a guy in Ga who does cast 180gr HPs - ( they look like your 150 HPs Shadow ) who doesn't mind not lubing them, so I'll start with him.
Mean while I have 1000 200gr HCFP to use up and 500 220gr HCFP also - HMM I need more brass.
O WELL more time at the Range.
Doug
Ps... The Blue Press ( Dillon ) is handling SNS coated HC bullets. Hmm a new trend starting in the cast bullets.
Loaded up some more powder coated bullets last night, figured id share the pic :P When I'm loading them I have my barrel laying there to check the fit in the chamber and I've discovered that I'm having to shorten the Over all length to get them to slide in and out of the chambers smoothly. I'm near certain this is because the Powder layers up pretty good on the nose portion of the bullet when tumbling. The cases have been push-thru sized. I figure shortening the OAL by just a hair is okay becuase I am using starting charge weights for the load and have been seeing no pressure signs.
Any one else experienceing this with their Powder coated bullets?
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Quote from: BT8850 on April 01 2014 05:48:24 AM MDT
Any one else experienceing this with their Powder coated bullets?
Yes, anything that makes a bullet ogive larger can result in the front of the driving band being farther forward after sizing. This is more true with a rounded ogive of course, and one reason I prefer a small step down at the front of the driving bands.
You are right to seat your cast bullets as far out as possible, to fit your chamber, but yours are seated out pretty far in that pic anyway, so I wouldn't worry about needing to reduce the OAL a little.
Plan B - revisited - I used a super hot heat gun I've got for plan B - so I wouldn't mess up my oven. Now I'm I going to use the oven.
I thought about the ones stating their ovens wouldn't get hot enough with out turning them all the way up Hmmm ok I turned mine up to toast and put the bullets in for 10 min. Went out to check them 10 min later and my bullets where gone ??? ??? I guess toast meant toasted - pulled the pan out and there was 2 puddles of lead in the bottom under the screen :o :o :o- I like to fell off the stool laughing :)) :)) :)) - so mine gets hot enough.
I'm now finishing up the last 440 bullets at 400deg and now to figure out what degree sing solution I going to clean them with?
Once I'm done with the other 1500 bullets I won't have to go through this again. It only took me a about an hour or so to do the rest of the 440 bullets after the melted ones.
OOOwell it was raining and I didn't have anything else to do today.
Doug
The old expression Live and Learn comes to mind here! ::)
Post Toasty! Bullet Roasty! :))
I was cleaning up the oven just a little while ago - and pulled the alum. sheet out of the pan to catch the melted lube and noticed that their wasn't enough lube there to account for all the bullets I delubed - I figured it out when I cleaned the walls of the oven, it had vaporized alot of it and thats why the bullets and the oven walls where tacky - oven cleaner - what a mess - the next batch I'll try 200deg and 15min, maybe that will work better and cleaner
Doug
That's funny about the bullets melting. ;D bummer though
Yeah, 200-ish degrees should be plenty for just getting bullet lube off. I don't know offhand what the perfect temperature is, but I do know you can melt the lube without any smoke or burning, if you keep the temp low enough.
BTW, you'll want an oven thermometer when you start powdercoating, if you're not using one already. Don't just go by the oven dial.
What does lead melt at - 800deg
Doug
No, much lower. Depends on the alloy; wheel weight alloy melts a little under 600 degrees, and some type alloys melt in the mid 400's.
Well - I degreased them - went to HomeDepot and picked up a spray bottle of Krud Kleaner to try - Worked Great - poured it into a plastic container and let them soak for about an hour - dipped them out with a spoon and rinsed them in hot water - TA DA - perfect. Coated my first batch of bullets in a Deep Purple Red and cooked them at 400deg - 10 min - No one said anything about them sticking to the screen, anyway second coat and done and then sized them. Beautiful!!!
I've only found 2 companys that will sell me the cast heads unlubed - out of 5 I e-mailed.
Yup Yondering good tip - bought an oven temp gauge.
Doug
I forgot to mention when I sized mine that some where Hard to size (thick coating? ) got me to thinking has anyone thought to weigh their heads to see if the is a noticeable difference in weight?? My scale doesn't go high enough - by the way Shadow - what type of digital scale do you use for your pull downs . it looks like just what I need.
My next batch of bullets, I'm going to use a Teflon coating I came across.
Doug
Doug, The small digital scale I'm using is a Frankford Arsenal from Midway USA $29 on sale. It has some draw backs but I understand those and work with that. Only even numbered tenths of a grain 0.0, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.8 and it will drift easily. That's why I take multiple measurements with it. The best part is it agrees with my balance beam on the even tenths.
Quote from: ShadeTreeVTX on April 26 2014 07:03:59 PM MDT
I forgot to mention when I sized mine that some where Hard to size (thick coating? ) got me to thinking has anyone thought to weigh their heads to see if the is a noticeable difference in weight?? My scale doesn't go high enough - by the way Shadow - what type of digital scale do you use for your pull downs . it looks like just what I need.
My next batch of bullets, I'm going to use a Teflon coating I came across.
Doug
Before you start adding other coatings, polish out your sizing die. (Assuming you're using a Lee push-through die?) Those Lee dies are all rough on the inside, and polishing is a requirement, not a recommendation, IMO. It's not hard to do, and makes a huge difference in sizing effort. It is also a lot easier on the powder coating when the die is polished, and you'll get better results overall.
If you're looking at digital scales, the Dillon is the only way to go, in my experience. I've had iffy results from most of the other brands, but my Dillon has been spot on for over 10 years now. They do cost more, but you get what you pay for in this case.
BTW - using the term "heads" for bullets makes me think of clueless liberals, who think a "bullet" is the whole loaded round. Most people who understand guns know the projectile is called a bullet.
Quote from: ShadeTreeVTX on April 26 2014 07:03:59 PM MDT
My next batch of bullets, I'm going to use a Teflon coating I came across.
You may not want to use teflon, it's been mentioned that it can produce poisonus fumes at high temperatures. I think Yondering posted about it earlier on this very thread. Use caution! Just figured I'd throw the heads up, I'm not a chemist and don't know much about Teflon so take it for what its worth.
It's good to hear that the powder coating is working for you given all the trouble you've gone through LOL! Post a pic if ya can, I wanna see the deep purple red 8)
As far as the added weight I know from my lee 175g .401 TC mold using straight wheel weights air cooled, with 2 coats of powder they weigh ~177-178g and from my lee 125g .356 2R 9mm mold they weigh ~126-127g using same alloy with 2 coats, weighed on the RCBS 505 balance beam. I'll weigh a couple uncoated ones tonight and get back with ya.
The Teflon Coating I'm using is being done outside. The MSD says nothing about posionus fumes.
You know why they call the cell phones
Smart Phones
??????
Because they make people like me look like
IDIOTS
I was perfectly happy with Smoke Signals - I'm having my Son set me up on his personal server to put my photos on to upload - when he gets around to it anyway.
Doug
I just picked up 3 coated and 3 uncoated of each caliber at random and weighed them.
.401 bullets uncoated: 177.4g, 177.5g, 177.8g
.356 bullets uncoated: 127.5g, 127.3g, 128.0g
.401 bullets 2 coats of powder: 178.0g, 178.5g, 178.4g
.356 bullets 2 coats of powder: 129.5g, 129.5g, 129.4g
It's not really scientific, you'd get more accurate if you weighed the same bullet before and after coating it. Take this info for what you will!
Thank you BT8850 - I didn't think it would be enough to worry about - but it stuck in my mind till I could now for sure.
Doug
Bump - need to keep this up front for reference.
The Teflon is turning out out to be a pain to work with. Well at least I haven't melted anymore heads.
Doug
Man what seems to be the issue with the Powder Teflon Paint? :-\
Is it being temperature sensitive?
Not adhering to applied surfaces?
Doesn't adhere as well as the others. I'm going to try something different - since I'm only going to use Teflon coatings on the 200 and 220 gr heads - I going to use an extra step - these loads will be on the high high end for the Mech-Tech and possibly the G20 6.6" barrel.
Doug
Taken me a couple years to come back to this. But Im here now!
I am experimenting with some soft slugs at top hand gun velocities W/O a GC for max expansion...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/300%20BLACK%20OUT/AAC%20HANDI/9A6FA58D-7544-47DB-AE8F-BD12D4934FED_zpso4i9anwi.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/300%20BLACK%20OUT/AAC%20HANDI/76954367-9C46-4000-8C62-8ED4CB67F5C3_zpskttkzs4s.jpg)
Doing them in the 10/40 as well..:)
We will see...
CW
One of my last reloading sessions, I decided blue on silver looked pretty cool. Here are both 10mm and .40 cal. (Ended up with 253 in a box of 250 I bought)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/SANY0209_zpsbd0b37d3.jpg)
CW, Your bullets look great. Did you use a slurry method to coat your bullets?
If yes what was your liquid carrier...Acetone? MEK? Other?
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 15 2015 08:06:37 AM MDT
CW, Your bullets look great. Did you use a slurry method to coat your bullets?
If yes what was your liquid carrier...Acetone? MEK? Other?
I haven't jumped into the deep end just yet. :o I bought these form lucky13 bullets. ::)
CW
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 15 2015 08:06:37 AM MDT
CW, Your bullets look great. Did you use a slurry method to coat your bullets?
If yes what was your liquid carrier...Acetone? MEK? Other?
Local friend of mine tried several methods and the best results by far were had using a plastic container with a handful of airsoft bbs and a few ounces of powder dumped in, he fishes them out with some forceps and then bakes them on a cookie sheet.
RW, it seem your friend is using the powdered paint dry with no solvent? ???
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 15 2015 04:58:08 PM MDT
RW, it seem your friend is using the powdered paint dry with no solvent? ???
Should have said that, forgot.
He is using regular powder coat material, I forget where he got it but many places sell it online. Just make sure its a good brand and not the harbor freight junk. Both are ground polyster resin but the harbor freight stuff is garbage.
I know the parent company to cerakote is a premium supplier, it should run about $15 a lb.. one pound will coat many thousands of bullets.
http://www.prismaticpowders.com/powder-coating-colors/
Even better..under $4 a lb for their discontinued stuff
http://www.prismaticpowders.com/powder-coating-colors/
There is no leading with this and no sign at all of the powder coming off in the rifling, in fact the powder is 100% intact on most recovered bullets.
Quote from: gandog56 on March 15 2015 07:04:12 AM MDT
One of my last reloading sessions, I decided blue on silver looked pretty cool. Here are both 10mm and .40 cal. (Ended up with 253 in a box of 250 I bought)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/SANY0209_zpsbd0b37d3.jpg)
Reminds me of the old Federal NYCLAD ammo!
https://www.google.com/search?q=federal+nyclad+ammo&biw=1366&bih=623&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aA8GVbb1DcXfsATRz4KYAQ&ved=0CEsQsAQ
CW
Yes, RW and CWLongShot, I was interested in what method was used, i saw the base was coated and assumed it might have been the slurry application.
I know of the various methods and I actually have been studying the processes and applications for several years. Bayou Bullets was the first one near me, that has been doing for quite some time. He uses a liquid solvent as a carrier for his bullets. The Dry shake and bake is cool and both it and the slurry methods coat the entire bullet.
The Powdered paint guns using the electrostatic method leaves the base or in some instances the flat nose exposed because of contact with the foil or metal plate used to conduct the charge for attraction.
Those Blue bullets look really nice Gandog.
I actually shot a few coated bullets yesterday someone sent me in trade, the velocities were very uniform and no smoke because no lube...As shot from the Glock factory barrel no lead and they were accurate.
My latest using 200 grain FN's.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/DSCN0099_zpsxxeqoack.jpg)
That image is not accessible to non-regsitered users of the ammobrasstrader website. If you can please post an image we can see.
Gandog, The reason the picture will not show, is because you have to be a member of the site where the picture is...
Huh, nobody sees them? It's Photobucket. I never had any problem other people cant see them before here.
Quote from: gandog56 on March 18 2015 04:35:33 PM MDT
Huh, nobody sees them? It's Photobucket. I never had any problem other people cant see them before here.
I cannot see it either, maybe link is broken if its photobucket? they always have strange issues, why i quit using them several years ago.
Quote from: gandog56 on March 18 2015 04:35:33 PM MDT
Huh, nobody sees them? It's Photobucket. I never had any problem other people cant see them before here.
The link is not photobucket.
This is the link that you have in the image tag above:
http://ammobrasstrader.gunloads.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=141&d=1426516651Perhaps on the ammobrasstrader.gunloads.com site you put a link to photobucket. If so, provide the photobucket link and I can update the post above.
I'm registered ;D and I cannot see the pic either..
CW
Looks like ammobrasstrader doesn't allow external linking from their site, or Photobucket doesn't allow re-linking/embedding through third party sites.
That's what I get for being lazy and just copying it from another board, they changed it from the Photobucket address I stuck in it. Hopefully, I fixed it.
Quote from: cwlongshot on March 19 2015 07:20:18 PM MDT
I'm registered ;D and I cannot see the pic either..
CW
Now I see it fine??
Like the blue/nickle!!
CW
I'm trying to decide on a color for my 10mm cast bullets... ???
(http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/attachments/colour_codes_post_1964.jpg)
I picked up a sample pack of Leatherhead Bullets. They are a local supplier that started up not too long ago. The partners are firefighters (Shadow, weren't part of that brotherhood too?), and they are building their passion as a home-grown business. They are active among local action shooters, and their bullets are getting more popular here and farther away in the action shooting communities. They are good guys, and I like doing business locally. So if my guns like them, I might have a new supplier for my volume and gaming fodder.
These are 180 gr fp cast with "hardball" alloy. Advertised size is .401. They were closer to 0.4005.
I loaded some testers in 40 S&W and 10mm. I inherited a bunch of Win 452AA, so I was going for some bunny toot loads with this batch. For those not familiar with 452AA, it was superseded by WST, but my initial chrony test seem to indicate that it is a bit slower burning. I also loaded some higher octane testers in 10mm with Blue Dot. I am so danged busy right now, that it might be a week or two before I get to put them over the chrony and on paper.
One thing that I noticed is that the bullets give the sensation of being greasy, but they leave the fingers remarkably clean.
[attachment deleted by admin]
By the way Shadow, real men wear pink! :D
The brothers from Leatherhead, look to be doing well, I'll be looking to see how you make out with there product. In a recent test with some poly coated bullets I found them to be accurate, leading free and no smoke from the Glock 20 10mm testing March 14th, 2015.
Glock 20 SF Factory Barrel
22 lb Wolff non captive RSA
180 gr. Cast Alpha II Super Hi Tec coated no lube groove
Power Pistol 7.8grains 1.2550" 350CCI
Velocity 1124 fps / 1138 fps / 1137 fps / 1143 fps / 1152 fps / 1153 fps / 1134 fps
Taterhead writes;
QuoteBy the way Shadow, real men wear pink! :D
Well "PINK" is the color for "Guided Missiles" and that would be a fitting color for my precision loaded ammo! ;D
But then the ladies will see them and say "Oooo! Pink bullets I want some!" :P