Anyone catch the story on the news? At the end the window was busted out and I believe the driver was dragged out and beaten. Interesting question... what would you have done?
http://www.concealednation.org/2013/10/motorcycle-gang-attack-what-would-you-have-done/
Sad part is there were off duty cops in the bike group.
Video stops at the window breaking. Make sure to look at the beginning which was the start of it all.
I know exzactly what I'd do ;D As I notice the group approaching, I would put on my right blinker with the flow of traffic approach the farthermost right lane or parking lane, stop put on my emergency blinkers, wait a bit, after they all pass then continue with my business.
Not a bad choice but given what we have here???
(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1374833_10151929815171675_1194414402_n.jpg)
That's the big city's for ya. Grew up in one. Did not realize what a waste of time and stress till I left it.
I still don't understand why those idiots slowed down and tried to block the SUV's path in the first place. From what I can see, they became the aggressors early on, leaving him no choice but to defend his family and himself. If that had been me, with my wife and daughter, those cowards would have gotten to see what the undercarriage of an 8000lb Dodge 4x4 looked like. :-\
As soon as the driver of the SUV used his vehicle as a weapon and ran over a motorcyclist he became the aggressor. In my State if you are the aggressor in an altercation, you cannot use "self defense" or "Fear for your life" as cause to use deadly force.
I got the feeling from looking at that video the driver of the SUV was in a panic (fear) and was trying to get away.
What would I do? I would protect my family.
Yes, I would protect my family as well, but running over a Human being on a Motorcycle is not an Option in my Play Book.
Quote from: Steve4102 on October 05 2013 08:08:55 AM MDT
Yes, I would protect my family as well, but running over a Human being on a Motorcycle is not an Option in my Play Book.
I am not saying he did the right thing there either. I thought the question was geared toward when the SUV got stopped in traffic off the highway. If someone is bashing my car window in with a motorcycle helmet, I have to think of my family's safety at that point.
Quote from: Steve4102 on October 05 2013 08:08:55 AM MDT
Yes, I would protect my family as well, but running over a Human being on a Motorcycle is not an Option in my Play Book.
I'm not sure I see an ethical difference between using your gun to defend against a grave threat, versus using your car to do the same thing. Guns and cars are both lethal weapons. In either case, it boils down to whether or not you are using the most reasonable means available to you to avoid being killed or gravely wounded by an unprovoked attacker.
The guys on the bike were the initial aggressors. They brace checked the rover to try and stop traffic so they could "stunt" on the highway. Once he mistakingly bumped them they became aggressive and hostile. He was surrounded on all sides by thugs and shitums. He attempted to get himself out of a bad situation. One guy got run over..too bad. These guys are all scumbags and perps. Trust me i live in and police these same areas. They are nothing but trouble. Had it been me in that car with my family and they attempted to remove me from said vehicle well then somebody would have taken rounds. They are not looking to discuss....they are looking for violence and trouble. As far as the off duty cops there...they should be ashamed and relieved of duty
QuoteThey brace checked the rover to try and stop traffic so they could "stunt" on the highway.
And you know this How? by watching the video or where you there.
I live in this area. I see what these biker thugs do. I deal with them on my job. They want to take over anywhere they are and want everybody else out of the way. That rider was trying to slow the rover so everbody could get in front. Do you know other riders had on ramps blocked along their route. Other riders were joining in as they rode. They are like a swarm of locusts. They take over everywhere they are. They were riding because they had already been kicked out of other locations that day.
AHH, so you were not there and you really do not know what they were up to. RIGHT!
Actually for the sake of the SUV driver I hope you are wrong.
Cuz if you are right and these guys only wanted to stop traffic so they could "Stunt", then there was no "danger of bodily harm or fear of death", was there. Without any intent of harm by the bikers and without any real fear of same by the SUV driver there is no legal way he can justify running over another Human Being.
The way I see it the SUV driver was not in fear of his/family's life, he was annoyed and pissed off cuz he was forced to wait. Not afraid for his life, pissed because he had to wait for a bunch of Crotch Rocket Cruzers to have their fun.
Yup, I would be pissed as well, but I sure as hell would NOT run the dumb ass over and claim I was A-Scared.
Blueline, you would be a great witness for the prosecution in the advent that this SUV driver ends up in court for attempted murder.
The jury is still out on this one.
They have some history and it looks like NYPD attempted keeping them out this day. I think anyone faced with what he felt inside the SUV may have taken the same actions. I think I would!
http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/bikers-attack-suv-after-driver-rams-riders/
I hope they through the book at this arrogant SOB and send his holier-than-thou ass to the slammer and I hope the people he injured take him and his family for every dime they have and then some. POS.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of this. If new information becomes available please post it up.
BlueLineFish, I agree with you 100%! It looks like some of the bikers, for whatever reason, stopped suddenly, and one of them was 'bumped' by the Range Rover when the driver couldn't stop in time. It should have ended there, but as the video shows, the bikers chose to take matters into their own hands. As for myself, I'm not about to risk my family's safety by second guessing the intentions of a bunch of cowards when they surround my vehicle, leaving me with no way to escape. On their bikes or not, armed or not, if I think that they are a threat to me or my family, they get pulverized! >:(
From the article IC posted:
"They take their helmets and they start to dent his car, and apparently his tires are slashed with a knife," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said at a press conference Monday."
The panicked dad gunned the engine, striking several bikers — one of whom was seriously injured — as he sped off, with the pack of thugs in hot pursuit, police sources said.
There indeed appears to be more to the story.
COPS among them chose to not step forward ???
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/undercover-biker-watched-beating-desk-duty-sources-article-1.1477174
Quote from: 4949shooter on October 06 2013 07:17:30 PM MDT
From the article IC posted:
"They take their helmets and they start to dent his car, and apparently his tires are slashed with a knife," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said at a press conference Monday."
The panicked dad gunned the engine, striking several bikers — one of whom was seriously injured — as he sped off, with the pack of thugs in hot pursuit, police sources said.
This happened after he ran over the bikers and was boxed in at another intersection. This was the result of HIS actions, not the reason for his actions.
I didn't see anything about charges against the driver.
According to Diana Mieses, wife of injured biker Jay Mieses, "That's not just a motorcycle being ran over in the video, it's a human being. It's Jay." Her statement shoots down the ' people were ran over before the video starts' crowd, because the only injuries to bikers occurred when her husband was ran over, and it's "in the video".
My understanding of the story is that after he bumped the bike they all started surrounding the truck and trying to get him out. Hitting the truck and acting aggressivly. Yeah..let me get out into an irate mob. They are rational and want to talk. They started the situation, then escalated it, then got the brunt of a bad situation. Is what happen to the rider unfortunate, yes, but it the actions of his buddies that caused it. Not the driver
What would I have done? Stayed away from New York :P
I wasn't there.
Based on the facts the article presented here is what I understand happened.
A motorcylist in the group cut off the SUV and brake checked the SUV (0:12). The SUV contacts the cylist at this time.
Not seen on the video: The article states that at this point the cyclists became aggressive, banging on the SUV with helmets and demanding the driver exit the vehicle, as well as threatening to slash tires. At this point these actions are not substantiated by this video.
This leads up to 0:36. The SUV guns his engine and runs over a bunch of motorcycles and one cyclist. This is the turn point on the video.
The reason I say this is because at this point the SUV driver exercised deadly force. At this point he needs some pretty convincing justification. He has, as my CCW instructor taught, just written the blank check. The value could be everything you own as well as time in jail depending on how you articulate facts, how correctly you understood the situation, what the DA had for lunch, and maybe the attitude of the jury you might get.
What would I have done.
Well, for darn sure I would have been dialing, or on the phone with 911. This is a great example of why you should always be hands free when you drive, or have the ability on your nightstand. You want your hands free to run your car or gun, but you want to on with 911 letting their recording system capture your voice as you describe what is going on and what you threats you perceive.
From there, who knows. That may have made all the difference in the world. Or none at all.
For certain once the glass was breached, it would be time to light off the smoke wagon.
I saw it stated he called 911 for sure. Probably why no charges were filed against him.
Quote from: Steve4102 on October 06 2013 09:30:11 PM MDT
Quote from: 4949shooter on October 06 2013 07:17:30 PM MDT
From the article IC posted:
"They take their helmets and they start to dent his car, and apparently his tires are slashed with a knife," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said at a press conference Monday."
The panicked dad gunned the engine, striking several bikers — one of whom was seriously injured — as he sped off, with the pack of thugs in hot pursuit, police sources said.
This happened after he ran over the bikers and was boxed in at another intersection. This was the result of HIS actions, not the reason for his actions.
Not according to the context of the article IC posted.
Either way it doesn't make the retaliatory actions of the bikers excusable or lawful. The bikers should have taken a plate number down and called 911. This is the lawful way to handle such an incident. They could have even followed the SUV while keeping 911 on the phone to ensure the driver did not get away until the responding police could locate him. Then allow the police to conduct an investigation. There were plenty of witnesses and videos to aid the police with an investigation.
Other side
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/Wires/Online/2013-10-06/AP/Images/Bikers%20SUV%20Assault.JPEG-06d24.jpg)
A COP was charged yesterday.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57606470/new-video-of-nyc-motorcycle-road-rage-attack-shows-men-kicking-suv-driver/
So, the SUV driver added fuel to the fire by throwing a water bottle at the bikers, then runs them over and claims foul.
What kind of charges do you think would be brought against the SUV driver if one of the Bikers he drove over was a Cop? Plenty!
"From speaking to him, what he saw - or what he believes that he saw was a water bottle come out of the sunroof of the car," Vecere said
Sure, now a week later a water bottle mysteriously is alleged to have come out of the SUV roof.
If it were true it still doesn't justify beating the guy, slashing his tires and breaking the windows on his car. The bikers should have called the police if they had a problem.
Quote from: 4949shooter on October 09 2013 02:12:26 PM MDT
"From speaking to him, what he saw - or what he believes that he saw was a water bottle come out of the sunroof of the car," Vecere said
Sure, now a week later a water bottle mysteriously is alleged to have come out of the SUV roof.
If it were true it still doesn't justify beating the guy, slashing his tires and breaking the windows on his car. The bikers should have called the police if they had a problem.
And stopping his SUV so they could "Stunt" justifies his running them over??? That's crazy!
I never said that, so do us all a favor and don't put words in my mouth.
Let the investigation run its course. There may be more to the story than the simplified version you give.
Lets all take a step back here.
There is not a side to this story that has the high ground. Both are so far in the wrong that I think they should all be hauled into court.
Fair enough sqlbullet.
Quote from: sqlbullet on October 10 2013 08:37:08 AM MDT
Lets all take a step back here.
There is not a side to this story that has the high ground. Both are so far in the wrong that I think they should all be hauled into court.
I have no fight in this but it just seems this whole incident is a reflection of just how close society is on the edge of anarchy. I just don't understand why all the anger that appears to be bottled up in people.
QuoteI just don't understand why all the anger that appears to be bottled up in people.
When America see this and we put the real criminals behind bars, we will all calm down and just "get-a-long.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/betterAmerica.jpg)
Quote from: Steve4102 on October 09 2013 02:31:45 PM MDT
Quote from: 4949shooter on October 09 2013 02:12:26 PM MDT
"From speaking to him, what he saw - or what he believes that he saw was a water bottle come out of the sunroof of the car," Vecere said
Sure, now a week later a water bottle mysteriously is alleged to have come out of the SUV roof.
If it were true it still doesn't justify beating the guy, slashing his tires and breaking the windows on his car. The bikers should have called the police if they had a problem.
And stopping his SUV so they could "Stunt" justifies his running them over??? That's crazy!
nobody said that. Their aggressive and untimidating tactics caused him to fear for his safety which let to him retreating like he is supposed to. Unfortunately one of these perps was in front of him and got run over. If tbere was an issue the bikers had then they could have called the police instead of trying to take matters into their own hands. The drivers actions are a result of the cyclists actions so therefore the cyclists are at fault for what happenEd to the guy who got run over. Trus me..if the driver of the suv was at fault in any way he would have been arrested and charged. I am sure more will come out about this and using the new facts my opinions my change.
I agree with the photos but lets really kick it up a notch. Wall St types and politicos who rob and steal and cause taxpayers hardship due to bailouts and theft. Where's Corzine, not in cuffs. Elites will never pay, they walk. Criminal enterprise just turned 100 years old. The Enterprise/Cabel in question had their glorious day in Dec, 1933. Just prior to XMAS eve, Dec 23rd,1933. Not tin foil material.
You know, not to split hairs here but having grown up where I could go to motorcycle related gatherings yearly I have to ask myself are those guys really a gang? I have personal acquaintances that are members of REAL motorcycle gangs like the Outlaws.
So my question is:
Are those guys really a gang?
or
A collection of wannabe douche bags that are lucky that they didn't run in to someone who was a legally armed citizen?
I think they are the latter.
Quote from: P33v3 on December 24 2013 08:04:44 AM MST
You know, not to split hairs here but having grown up where I could go to motorcycle related gatherings yearly I have to ask myself are those guys really a gang? I have personal acquaintances that are members of REAL motorcycle gangs like the Outlaws.
So my question is:
Are those guys really a gang?
or
A collection of wannabe douche bags that are lucky that they didn't run in to someone who was a legally armed citizen?
I think they are the latter.
I would go with the latter also.
I drive a 1 ton Dully, there would have been more of them under my wheels, if they had pulled this on me.
It depends greatly on the state for exact legal definition. In general though you need the following elements to be considered an illegal gang.
Some commonality that links you together in law, or in fact. A group of guys who agree to ride together on a specific date/time/place satisfies this requirement.
A minimum number of participants. Three is the smallest I know of. I think 10 would satisfy any state. Needless to say, this group certainly had the minimum number
Finally, the group must be engaged in a pattern of illegal behavior as a part of the membership.
In Alabama, for instance, your street basketball team could be classified as a gang. In their state the minumum number is three members, and spitting in public is a crime. So, a case could definitely be made that a group of guys playing street ball in AL are a criminal gang.
Ain't law fun?