Hello
I have a 100% stock Glock 20 Gen 4 with the up-to-date parts (extractor, RSA, trigger bar).
First outing: 120 rounds down the pipe (Underwood 165 TMJ), I had multiple FTFeed the last round of all 3 10-round blocked magazines.
Second outing: 80 rounds of UW165 down the pipe with only 1 FTFeed the last round.
Since I'm planning on shooting mostly hot ammo I'm planning on swapping out the stock recoil spring and going with a Gen 3 20-22lb recoil spring. Does anyone know if those Gen 4 adapters that allow you to use Gen 3 recoil springs work?
I can live with the last round of the magazine FTF. I'm also curious to know how well the Gen 4 stock recoil springs would hold up over time with the hotter ammo.
Yes, the adapters that allow you to use Gen 3 RSA in a Gen 4 will work at least sometimes. I had a Gen 4 that was having FTF's with a variety of ammo. It did work better with a Gen 3 spring & adapter. However, it function even worse with an adapter and an aftermarket RSA from the Glockstore with a 22lb spring. You'll just have to try and see how it does.
My guess would be that the stock Gen 4 springs would hold up fairly well over time. But that is just a guees.
Glock replaced my Gen 4 with a Gen 3 that is working excellent so far.
Replace the slide stop lever and the slide lock spring and that should fix your issues.
I had the same problem but a Gen 3 glock 20. That last round would lock the slide back as if the mag was empty.
I changed those two things after a talk to an armor at the GLOCK STORE and all has been well so far. But granted I have shot a lot of ammo since. But so far so good!
It drove me nuts (I guess my OCD) knowing I still had one round left and my slide was locked open.
Best of luck my friend and keep us posted. If I run into another problem I will post my situation to find a solution.
Brian
@ DAVIDF
I read through your whole thread and the problems you were having. Glad you have a working G20 now. I think I will hold off on getting a heavier RSA for the time being until I can test out different types of ammo.
@ 445 supermag
I installed an extended slide stop release after the first outing and then had 1 FTF on the second outing. My slide doesn't lock back as if the mag is empty. Instead the last round fails to chamber, appears to be facing upwards at a 45 degree angle, and the gun fails to return to battery.
Thanks for the replies. I'll report back when I run more ammo through it.
Maybe a stronger magazine spring from Wolff will help with your issue?
All 3 of my magazines are permanently blocked to 10 rounds so I am unable to disassemble them. I'll just continue to put rounds down range and if the problem persists, I'll pick up a 10 round magazine.
I have put 150 rounds of various brands through my new Glock 20 full size Gen 4 with zero problems (knock on wood). Love it. I said I would NEVER have a Glock............ (the check is in the mail, I promise I won't..........)
Love it - make get a 29
I was holding out for the Gen4 G-20 but a fabulous deal on a gen3 SF G-20 presented itself :o Jumped on that! ;D
Quote from: PandaBear on September 15 2013 06:24:44 PM MDT
All 3 of my magazines are permanently blocked to 10 rounds so I am unable to disassemble them. I'll just continue to put rounds down range and if the problem persists, I'll pick up a 10 round magazine.
I am thinking the problem
might be those 10 round blocked magazines. The blocked 10 rounders never seemed to be as good as the standard mags.
Are you in a state where 10 round mags are the only capacity magazines which are legal?
For what it's worth, mine came with 3 - 15 round mags. NIB. Must have thought I was expecting problems.
AWESOME product. The polymer is cheap as crap though.
Quote from: PandaBear on September 15 2013 06:24:44 PM MDT
All 3 of my magazines are permanently blocked to 10 rounds so I am unable to disassemble them. I'll just continue to put rounds down range and if the problem persists, I'll pick up a 10 round magazine.
Never heard of any Glock mags "blocked" to 10 rounds. The latest 10 round mag I've seen is only about 5 months old, and it's the same as previous Gen 3's. They have a rail stamped into the steel sides, narrowing the stack so it will only take 10 rounds. The 20, 21 and 22 I've seen are the same. They disassemble the same as standard capacity mags, too. The only difference is the mag body and the follower, which has a notch to match the rail. All other parts are interchangeable. Unless they've changed in the last couple months, better have another look.
I am in CA so we are only allowed 10-round magazines. My FFL would not let me take the 15-round standard capacity magazines as rebuild kits so they blocked them.
I had 5-10 FTF on the first outing and only 1 FTF on the second outing. Might just need some breaking in. I'm thankful that it's only happening on the last round of the magazine.
I will report back when I take it out for the 3rd time.
Are the mags blocked by the FFL or are they blocked by Glock from the factory?
Blocked by FFL.
That just might be the problem.
I would suggest getting a factory 10 rounder directly from Glock.
Glock will most likely send you replacement magazines. They did for me. They sent them to me the day I called them & asked me to send my originals back.
Botach Tachtical http://www.botachtactical.com/gl201010for1.html has them cheap with free shipping, but sold out at the moment.
I would suggest getting 10rd factory mags. If you have 15rd mags blocked to 10rds with the factory 15rd spring, your inducing more pressure on the slide because you have less weight on top of the spring due to the 5 less rounds and more spring pressure. It would work IF there is an insert at the bottom to stop the follower at 10rds, and the spring remains at full length for 15rds. But if they blocked it off at base plate area and raised the bottom of the mag completely up, which raises the spring bottom up more, this would be your issue. At that point, you would have to clip off a single coil and retry using the mag.
I don't think Glock would send me new magazines once they find out they were 15 round magazines blocked to 10 rounds by my FFL.
@Ezveedub,
I'm going to ask my FFL how they blocked the magazines tomorrow.
Disassemble them and see for yourself how they blocked them. If it's just a block, leave it out and try again.
Jim Flynn (on Gunbroker) has 10 round Glock factory mags if you are interested.
I haven't gotten around to ordering any 10 round magazines. Finding them isn't a problem for the G20 as it is for lots of other guns. Been spending my money on things for my other guns.
I can't disassemble the magazines because my FFL permanently pinned them.
Quote from: PandaBear on October 14 2013 08:11:02 PM MDT
I haven't gotten around to ordering any 10 round magazines. Finding them isn't a problem for the G20 as it is for lots of other guns. Been spending my money on things for my other guns.
I can't disassemble the magazines because my FFL permanently pinned them.
That's just stupid. How does he expect his "customers" to properly maintain and service this vital piece of equipment? Unacceptable. BTW, there's no such thing as "permanent" anything anymore (unless you're permanently dead, which substandard equipment may lead to). Pins are just pins. If the floor plate is pinned, they're cheap. Please post some pics, or send them (the pics or the mags) to me. I'll figure it out.
Add to that, if they've been modified as it seems, Glock won't honor the warranty.
Quote from: Buckeye 50 on September 21 2013 08:32:49 PM MDT
I have put 150 rounds of various brands through my new Glock 20 full size Gen 4 with zero problems (knock on wood). Love it. I said I would NEVER have a Glock............ (the check is in the mail, I promise I won't..........)
Love it - make get a 29
Mine has been flawless as well using buffalo bore, underwood, hornady, cor bon, as well as the weakest 40 powered stuff.
I live in the CA where they don't want us to have guns. 10 round limit for all magazines. My FFL did not give me the option of accepting the magazines as parts kits for liability reasons so they pinned them.
I may have caused the FTFeeds by limp wristing. Getting more ammo soon to give it another go.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Wheatable/image_zps5d5977a5.jpeg)
Here is what is happening with the last round of my magazines. I have a factory 10-round magazine that I am taking to the range tomorrow in hopes that my FTF problems will go away. If not, then I think I will replace the slide lock spring as someone mentioned earlier in the thread.
UW 180 pictured. Also occurs with UW 165. Have not tried any other ammo. Total round count down the pipe is 234.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Wheatable/G20/IMG_0915_zpsfb9f870b.jpg)
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Wheatable/G20/IMG_0916_zps0e571ce6.jpg)
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Wheatable/G20/IMG_0918_zpsfedee1d7.jpg)
FTF on last round is almost always a mag spring issue.
If you want I have dozens of g20 10 round glock factory mags for sale or trade.
What happened at the range with the new factory mag?
Took a friend to the range on a busy Sunday and before I could put rounds through my G20, the range officer told us our 2 hour time limit was up. I had the factory 10 round mag loaded up with UW 180 so I fired off all 10 rounds and didn't have a FTF. Looks like the problem is with my 15 round blocked magazines, but I am planning on going back to the range next week to do further testing.
Quote from: gobigorgohome on March 04 2014 10:56:49 PM MST
If you want I have dozens of g20 10 round glock factory mags for sale or trade.
gobigorgohome,
I have 3 Gen 4 Standard Capacity Magazines, would trade for 10 rounders. E-mail me at " DE12453@hotmail.com " if you are interested. They are listed for sale on GunAuction.com but have no bids yet, I can end it early if you are interested in trading.
Thanx, Dusty
It's interesting you post this, as I've got a similar thread (http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/g20-gen4-ftf-issues/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/g20-gen4-ftf-issues/)) started after yours for the same type of issue (I have 15rd factory mags that I always just load to 10, easier that way). It will be interesting to see if you're able to solve your problem with new mags/springs.
Ran some UW 165 TMJ, UW 180 TMJ, and UW 150 Nosler's today and had failure to feed the last round issues with my factory 10 round mag. So if it's not a mag issue, then what is it? It only occurs with the last round in the mag.
Went to a gun show this weekend with my bud, they had a Glock armorer there. He took all my mags apart and noticed two things:
1.) Mag springs on all of them were about an inch shorter than they should be. He stretched them out from the middle outwards. I don't store ammo in my mags, I don't even pre-load them before going to the range, and I hardly even load more than 10 rounds at a time.
2.) Said not to run FrogLube in it, gets into everything (not sure I believe this, I read of lots and lots of guys running it in their Glocks, no problems). Not only that, but when Glock sent my pistol back, they said they clean and lubed it...and I believe them. It was very...non FrogLube feeling. It was like completely dry, not slick feeling at all. He cleaned it a little with a baby wipe and long q tip, greased the slide rails with Tetra.
So after the gun show we shot and I ran 100rds of the same PBR ammo, 10 rounds in the mags at a time, as I've been running. 1 FTF. Prior to this I'd have had 10 FTF. Ran maybe 40 rounds of Underwood 135 and 165 grain. 1 FTF. Made sure to save some spent brass this time.
He said the springs were supposed to be 6 inches long, starting from the point of the V on the first coil to the end of the spring.
One other thing that I thought interesting: I don't know how pre-Gen4 mags go as far as the inner workings of the mag, however, he was paying particular attention to what looked like binding of my mags as they got up closer to the top of the mag. He even went and checked another Gen4 G20 mag he had there, it did the same thing so he pronounced it normal. But the reason he went and checked was because it did not appear normal to him. I'd be interested in hearing from pre-Gen4 guys on how the piece the bullet sits on in the mag moves from say an inch from the top of the mag to the top of the mag. Is there any binding or hangup at all? It'd be something if these new Gen4 mags that are at least a little different in supporting ambi-mag release have some kind of imperfection in (some of?) them that is sometimes creating a less than smooth progression of the bullet upwards. Might be another reason to explain why it's just us Gen4 guys having problems...
P.S. Your March 1st FTF pics look pretty much like what I get.
P.P.S. I have my own thread and I'm not trying to hijack yours just share info. Shoot me a PM if you want me to get rid of anything in your thread, don't want to threadcrap.
Quote from: PandaBear on March 16 2014 11:35:50 PM MDT
Ran some UW 165 TMJ, UW 180 TMJ, and UW 150 Nosler's today and had failure to feed the last round issues with my factory 10 round mag. So if it's not a mag issue, then what is it? It only occurs with the last round in the mag.
Curious: If you take out your mag springs and measure them, starting at the point of the V in the first V of the spring, do you get 6 inches?
One thing I will ask is do you tap the loaded magazine on the palm of your hand or leg to set the cartridges to the rear of the magazines? I always tap the magazine as to set all my cartridges fully to the rear of the magazines.
Here are things I think about and look for when FTF's are problematic.
As rounds feed from the magazine a few things can happen during the dynamics of operation...
With higher impulse ammo, the next round can be over run by the slide, before it pops up high enough, for the slide to catch it and slide it forward to the chamber's feed ramp. If the slide doesn't travel far enough to the rear and stay there for a split second to allow the next cartridge to pop up or if the slide bounces at the end of travel in combination with the return can over run the next cartridge. Recoil springs, too weak/too strong, timing speeds related to ammo impulse. If springs are bunching up and/or binding up at the end of the stroke that could cause a short stroke of the slide.
If the magazine follower and/or springs are binding or not long or strong enough, that can slow the rise time for the next cartridge to pop up, and it would either stay in the magazine, or be trapped by the returning slide, nose dive or jammed under the feed ramp.
Feed ramps can be a little rough and induce extra drag, hampering the proper feeding. Cartridge jam against the breech feed ramp. People talk about not taper crimping except to remove the case expansion, however if a slight taper crimp is applied at the leading edge of the case mouth, this can allow a smoother transition to the chamber. The cartridge caught on the case mouth at the upper rear of the chamber.
The Cartridge Overall Length, can play into the fully feeding into the chamber, if too long. The tipping angle can be such that it strikes the upper area of the chamber and the rear of the cartridge tends not to slide up the breech face. If the breech face is too rough, or the breech face is damaged, the extraction rim can catch or drag not letting it slide into the chamber fully. Cartridge can be jammed nose up at the barrel's hood.
Also extractors if wrong one is installed, or tight, or damaged, debris build up, can inducing drag, as the extractor rim is trying to slide up behind the extractor, can slow the cartridge from fully sliding up the breech face. Cartridge short of full feeding.
Reloaded ammo, can exhibit damaged extraction rims from previous use, trapping at the extractor. Improperly resized case (need to do pass-through sizing) can also cause short of full feeding cartridges.
Frames and or frame rails should be inspected for damaged, if things are not working correctly.
Chucky2,
I appreciate all the information I can get at this time. I really love the gun and just want it to feed the last round as it's supposed to. I measured the spring from my 10 round mag and it came to exactly 6" from the V at the first coil to the end of the spring.
I use Fire Clean for lubrication and I will use the Frog Lube paste with heat and wipe off all the excess occasionally. I've had 0 problems using this method with my other handguns including my Glock 19.
The_Shadow,
I do tap the loaded mag on the palm of my hand to ensure the rounds are properly seated. That was brought to my attention by my FFL. I'd say that about 95% of the time, the last round fails to feed. I have a 10% Wolff spring on the way so I will try it out with my 10 round mag and see if that fixes the problem. I have put exactly 261 rounds of UW through the gun. Thank you for your input.
Panda;
Sorry to hear your troubles. I am no gunsmith or mechanic but I have a new G20 G4 with ZERO problems of any kind. At LEAST five different ammo makers through it and 600+ rounds. The only thing I do is massively clean and lubricate with great products before I ever shoot it. Maybe just luck but have had almost no problems except a Springfield loaded which had every problem known. Gun store took it back and gave me full credit for it (rather odd but true).
Best of luck - you have a great and awesome gun there and Underwood is my favorite 10mm company.
Pat
I ran my G20 gen 3 SF with 15 round magazine, 165 grn TMJ underwoods. Loaded up 6 into magazine, last failed to feed, slide locked to rear. Did this 3 times. 4 time i decided to practice a clearing drill and actually it was locked to rear without a bullet.
I had the same problems with my G4.
I am shooting a KKM barrel. springs steel rod 21 lb from glockmiester.
PandaBear I e-mailed Glock back and gave them a link to this forum, bumping your thread so hopefully they'll take a look through it also.
Quote from: n2horns on March 23 2014 08:05:35 PM MDT
I ran my G20 gen 3 SF with 15 round magazine, 165 grn TMJ underwoods. Loaded up 6 into magazine, last failed to feed, slide locked to rear. Did this 3 times. 4 time i decided to practice a clearing drill and actually it was locked to rear without a bullet.
I had the same problems with my G4.
I am shooting a KKM barrel. springs steel rod 21 lb from glockmiester.
My SF worked fine with the same ammo, stock barrel, and 22 pound RSA from Glockstore.
This may help..
PandaBear,
Please be very carefull of lubing the inside of mags. Any lube getting on the case prior to firing can cause pressure to spike because the case wont fully grab the chamber walls. I use powered graphite on mine and then use air hose to blow out any excess. Hope you get your problems figured out.
I always give my new mags a wipe down with CLP, but that's about it.
Well I returned to the range today after installing a new extended slide release and slide lock spring. Problems continued so I let a RO put a few rounds through my gun and the slide continuously locked back with 1 round left in the magazine.
I will be giving Glock a call this week and let them know about my FTF issues.
Underwood 165 TMJ, 180 TMJ, and 150 Sierra JHP's is the only ammo I've used
Total round count is around 270
Via the e-mails I've been trading with Glock, they use CCI Blazer for testing if you RMA back. So the question to ask them is: If I'm using in SAAMI spec ammo that is not mild, but rather, mid to high 10mm power, how are you going to do validation testing to test for FTF?
If they're going to just shoot a bunch of weak CCI Blazer and pronounce the pistol works fine, that's not going to help you (and shipping back to Glock is like $70, not cheap).
Chuck
Quote from: chucky2 on April 21 2014 03:24:11 PM MDT
Via the e-mails I've been trading with Glock, they use CCI Blazer for testing if you RMA back. So the question to ask them is: If I'm using in SAAMI spec ammo that is not mild, but rather, mid to high 10mm power, how are you going to do validation testing to test for FTF?
If they're going to just shoot a bunch of weak CCI Blazer and pronounce the pistol works fine, that's not going to help you (and shipping back to Glock is like $70, not cheap).
Chuck
True. If the gun works fine with CCI then Glock is not going to be of help. The next step is to try and tweak it on your own.
I am new to 10mm. My Gen 3 G20sf's slide often locks back with one round left in the magazine too. Even with brand new magazines. Seems to do it most frequently with more powerful hot ammo. I shortened the OAL to 1.2500" on my warm book reloads and the problem has been reduced.
Timing must be an issue with Gock 10mms. We expect them to flawlessly feed a wide variety of ammo of different velocities. Then we experiment with different weight recoil springs to reduce frame battering and stabilize velocities. Slide velocity can be very fast with hot 10mm ammo.
We push boutique ammo producers to load to the highest velocity with heaviest bullets possible.
I have 20 hot boutique rounds left then sticking to more reasonable book loads. I don't want the wear and tear of the hottest loads for punching paper.
I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for a fully reliable pistol but realize that we are asking a lot of these pistols. I think we expect more from 10mm Glocks than any other caliber.
Just a correction note, the
QuoteOAL you mentioned of 2.250"
should be 1.2500"
Yes taming the slide velocities is an issue to an extent. The RSA of the Glock's are good to go to a point, but as you also mention the boutique ammo exceeds the setup. Here is where competent handloading can provide quality rounds that are still effectively safe.
In the pull-down sections I have tried to show exactly what is being used by the various ammo makers, just to keep things in perspective. I have often posed the question if these loads do in fact fit the SAAMI MAP specifications. :-\ I would hope they do while being safely at the upper edge of this pressure value.
It would be nice to have Glock study this situation more in depth with the higher impulse ammo looking for what is causing so much malfunctions. They should look at this not as a single unit but as a complete product model issue. ???
Yes, Shadow, I realized that measurement error and corrected it. The longer erroneous measurement would definitely cause feeding problems for any 10mm!
I just don't expect my Glock 20SF to be 100% reliable with hot boutique loads. Lots of power and slide velocity.
I just shot 30 rounds of moderate book reloads in my G20SF and only had 1 FTF. I think it was a fluke or related to the 22lb recoil spring. I had no premature slide lock problems before empty. I did have premature slide lock problems when shooting max book loads and boutique loads on a previous trip.
I noticed that even on my brand new Glock mags the first 3-5 rounds are pretty easy to insert. If the upward pressure of the spring/follower is weak at the last few rounds, that could cause a feeding problem if the rounds couldn't be pushed up fast enough for the fast cycling slide.
I have a Wolff 10% mag spring that I will try next range trip. I had every intention of bringing it along last range trip, but forgot.
I've also had few instances where the last round did feed properly, but I'd say 98% of the time it doesn't.
Ordering a heavier spring may be the next step.
Another thing I've noticed is the follower can be pushed down in the magazine tube and the front of the follower stick, jamming the follower down in the tube (not anti-tilt).
Seems like a magazine follower and spring redesign by Glock could improve the feeding reliability of the Glock 10mms.
One thing I do, is disassemble my magazines to insure the springs are correctly installed. I have found some that were backwards, this allowed the follower to tip down in the front... ???
Interesting you note this 10mm-Admirer. At the gun show where the Glock armorer worked on my Glock, he found 2 things mag related:
1.) Despite almost never (a literal handful of times) having more than 10 rounds in my 15 round mags, and never storing the mags loaded, my mag springs were 5-5.5" (I think 5", I'd have to go back and check my post to be sure) instead of the desired 6".
2.) He pushed down on the follower and there was some occasional hangups on them, a sticking like you noted. It was strange enough that he went and found another 10mm mag he had to check if it was normal behavior.
So I do wonder if there are mag problems contributing to Gen4 issues...
Update
Tested a 15 round mag out of state with UW 165 TMJ with no success
Tried out the Wolff 10% spring in my 10 round mag today with little to no success
28 rounds UW 165 TMJ
4 rounds UW 135 Noslers
1 PBR 200 XTP
I might buy a new RSA, but if that doesn't fix it, then I give up.
I'm just going to have to sacrifice the last round in the mag.
Bummer.
Run EVERYTHING in stock. Take it from there. Outside that, grab a Gen 3. Ck MrGunsInGear on YouTube running 155 U/W in stock with a Gen 4. Might just have to shake the after market stuff. Just saying.
My Glock 20 Gen 4 is completely stock aside from the extended slide stop which is an OEM part. I'll put the original slide release back in and see what happens.
I have the exact same parts in mine as MrGunsNGear
I've tested it using
Factory 15 round mag
Factory 10 round mag
Factory 15 round mag blocked to 10 rounds
Factory 10 round mag with Wolff 10% spring
Refresh my memory...is the gun working with the low powered 10mm? CCI Blazer?
I haven't tried any of the lower powered ammo.
I've only tried
UW 165/180 TMJ
UW 150 Sierra JHP
UW 135 Nosler
PBR 200 XTP
Slide locks back with 1 round left in the mag. I ordered one of the Gen 4 22lb RSA's from Glockmeister. I'm wondering if the 10mm3 followers in the Gen 4 mags could be the problem. Does anyone know if the 10mm2 followers will work with the Gen 4 mags?
PandaBear, what makes you say that about the followers?
My G20SF does exactly the same thing with the higher impulse hot boutique ammo (PBR 200 XTP) but not with max reloading book loads or lighter. I was discouraged, like you, at first until I started using more reasonable loads and the feeding problem disappeared.
The PBR 200 XTP ammo I shot was way too hot IMHO. The brass was rough looking after being fired and a factory Glock barrel would produce smiles. The KKM barrel didn't. The primer pockets were loose when I reloaded them.
Hang in there. Best wishes.
Do you have any more of the offensive PBR 200XTP? If you were to send me one, we could do the Pull-Down and document that load. The 200XTP was not documented yet. PM me if you want to send me one for pull-downs...we can all learn from the data documentations. Thanks! :D
Lots of people including myself have had problems with the 9mm 2183 followers which is why I decided to order a 10mm2 follower to try out. Might as well give it a try.
I have no smiles or bulges on any of my cases and cases eject as they should.
I plan to order this LaRue Tactical mount, fitting into the rear factory dovetail: Glock Aimpoint Micro Mount | LaRue Tactical (http://www.laruetactical.com/glock-aimpoint-micro-mount) for an Aimpoint Micro H-1. With the added weight I'm hoping to slow the slide while running the hot Underwood... hopefully mag feed timing will benefit too.
:-\
Update
Replaced the extended slide stop with the original slide stop and loaded 2-3 rounds per mag.
20 rounds UW 165 TMJ
2 rounds UW 150 JHP
Slide locked back with 1 round in the mag using factory 10 round mag with original spring.
I couldn't even tap, rack, bang because the gun thought the mag was completely empty.
Put the Wolff 10% spring in and had 0 issues.
I watched a video on youtube called "Biomechanics Of The Grip" and it taught me that I wasn't applying sideways pressure with my hands properly.
Further testing is required though...
"Biomechanics Of The Grip"
Was having the same issues with the last round getting picked up until I drop my 180gr loads to 1200 or less and my 200-220 gr loads to 1130 or less (1050fps).
However, not picking up the last round on hot loads is my least concerns if I need that many
This weekend, I was able to run through some UW ammo, 180 xtp and 155 Nosler......had no feeding issues with the stock barrel or new KKM.
So PandaBear, you are thinking it was your grip causing the FTF or the lack of spring pressure (which itself may have compensated for something else wrong, like the frame flexing or something else)?
I'm thinking it's a combination of my grip, the flex in the frame, and the factory magazine spring not being strong enough.
The slide locked back with 1 round in the mag with the factory spring.
The slide didn't lock back with 1 round in the same mag with the Wolff 10% spring.
I only load 2 rounds into the mag each time.
The slide has never locked back with more than 1 round in the mag.
I shouldn't call it a FTF issue since the last round is barely being pushed forward out of the mag.
Put 14 more rounds of UW 165 through my 15 to 10 round magazine and the slide locked back with 1 round left in the mag only 1 out of 7 mags. Seems as if my grip is to blame.
Here's what's interesting on the grip thing:
When I talked to Glock after they sent mine back saying they found no problems, they said they fired it using like 3 fingers or something like that to simulate an extreme limp wrist condition - and it worked for them. Of course, we now know they used weak 10mm ammo, so not really the same as what we're shooting. But the point remains, to me, it sounds like Glock expects the firearm to function even when limp wristing. If that is true, then shouldn't it still function despite a not perfect grip? What if you're in a struggle with someone and you have one hand on the firearm and need to fire? It is not expected to perform in such a situation?
Quote from: PandaBear on July 01 2014 05:15:35 PM MDT
Put 14 more rounds of UW 165 through my 15 to 10 round magazine and the slide locked back with 1 round left in the mag only 1 out of 7 mags. Seems as if my grip is to blame.
I am still banking on that magazine.
This is an interesting topic. As I posted in my introduction I just bought a "used" Gen 4 G29. I say "used" because honestly there is no wear anywhere on the gun that suggests that it was shot much by the previous owner.
Anyway, yesterday I got the chance to take this pistol to the range. With me I took an old box ($14.95/50) of PMC 170 gr JHP, a new box of Remington 180 gr Metal Case, and two handloads. The two handloads used Berry's
155 gr Plated Bullets, brand new Starline brass and 7.0 and 7.5 grains of WSF. I shot 10 rounds of the PMC JHP's, then 10 rounds of the Remington load. Then I loaded a mag with 5 rounds of the 7.0 gr load. The slide locked
back after the 4th round. After firing that 5th round I ran through 5 rounds of the 7.5 grain load with no problems. Then I ran another 10 of the Remington through the gun with no issues. Then I loaded 8 in one mag and 7 in
another of the 7.0 grain load and the side locked back with round to go in the first mag but then I had no problems with the other mag. Thinking I had narrowed it down to a mag issue I loaded the questionable mag with 8
rounds of Remington and had no issues with that mag. So, I did the same with the PMC and had no issues either.
Now, 7.0 grains of WSF is a very light load (Hodgdon lists 6.8 grains as giving 1100 fps) so it seems I kind of am having the opposite experience from Panda where light loads are giving me issue where the 7.5 grain load did not,
and neither did the factory ammo.
Was it just me? It's been several years since I have shot a Glock but I do shoot regularly-1911, M&P, 44 revolver etc.
I took my Glock 20 Gen 4 out a few months ago and was having the slide lock back with 1 round left in the mag again.
10 round Gen 4 mag with Wolff 10% springs and 10mm3 follower.
I have installed the 10mm4 follower with factory spring and will test that out next.
I don't mean to get off subject (which it really isn't), but this thing your doing, wanting to know about changing springs, and the adapter from Gen 4 to Gen 3 so you can use the stiffer springs, and the stronger steel guide rod, USED to be the way to go. It is NO MORE!!! Like one of the other readers on this thread, I used to HATE Glocks, and swore I would NEVER buy one. The only reason I ever got one, is 10mm. I have been a 10mm fan since 1983, and other than getting to shot one in 1989 (Delta Elite Colt), I just never got around to it.
As a mater of fact, shooting and guns had left my life for the better part of 18 years, and I just got back into it last year. The first thing I did was go back to wanting the 10mm and MAN did I ever have a LOT to learn.
Anyway, as I found out the choices for 10mm are NOT MANY, and it seems that Glock was the only company that stuck it out in terms of development with 10mm. After 6 months of Research on the matter, in November of last year, I bought the G20 10mm Gen 4. I am happy with the gun, but like most of you, I DONT WANT A 40 Short and week load in my 10mm. I found out about Underwood, and never looked back.
I have found, through my research, the ANSWER to the recoil problem, that just plain kicks the fire out of Glock store, and all the rest of the solutions offered called DPM Systems. They have the answer PERIOD!!! Go to http://www.dpmsystemsusa.com/ and solve the 10mm problem with the g20. They offer the Heavy Duty kit (I called Dmitri's, the owner of DPM) and I got three control rods (26, 28 and 30 Pounds) and SEVERAL springs to sort out the bullet grain/Powder loads. I used Blue Machinist dye and marked the plastic part of the frame so I can SEE how hard each bullet I used marks the frame. I am SOO HAPPY, as it not only takes about 30% of the actual recoil OUT OF THE GUN USING THE 180 Grain Underwood loads, but you can tell that the slide BARELY touches frame (it takes much Testing, swapping and making a chart to record this info so you know WHAT ammo to use with what springs).
This Triple Spring System is absolutely the Problem Solver to the G20 and using HARD AMMO, and not hurting the guns longevity. I made a video on YouTube if you want to see how it works at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD31pGGq4ig
I hope this helps any of you, and I am going to Post this on the main topic page tonight as well, to share what I have learned and help any of you that have been using single springs to help this problem. Guys...IT WORKS!!! It was the best $150.00 I ever spent on any automatic gun. Since then, I put it (DPM) in all my guns from my 1911 to my Walther P99 it worked so well. Good luck, and if you have any questions you can reply to my new post I am about to put on the main page. Thanks...Thomas