I have a new Dan Wesson RZ-10 on the way. Is it ready to shoot underwood ammo as is or is there anything I should do to it first? Thanks for any help.
I don't know what recoil spring the DW is using, but Wolf recommends a 22-23# spring for heavy loads in the Colt Deltas. From reading around the internet it appears that most 1911 manufacturers are supplying their guns with 18.5# which are adequate for the FBI loads. I'm sure some of the others here will chime in with their wisdom.
RZ--10, welcome to the forum and congrats with the Razor Back. I like that you are asking questions...I don't know how familiar you are with guns in general, but getting to know all aspects of the gun, it insides and functions, will go a long ways to safety and proper use and handling!
Best regards! :D
I think it comes with a 20 lb recoil spring.
Quote from: RZ--10 on September 09 2013 05:50:00 AM MDT
I think it comes with a 20 lb recoil spring.
It does, you are correct. 20lb Wolff, specifically.
As for shooting Underwood in your new RZ ... I can tell you that the new CZ/DW RZ's are tough and built tight, ... I'd say you're okay running Underwood through it, although I think it would help the longevity of your 10mm 1911 by installing a flat bottomed firing pin stop.
read http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/underwood-ammo-in-a-sti-perfect-10/
Quote from: nickE10mm on September 09 2013 12:45:04 PM MDT
Quote from: RZ--10 on September 09 2013 05:50:00 AM MDT
I think it comes with a 20 lb recoil spring.
It does, you are correct. 20lb Wolff, specifically.
As for shooting Underwood in your new RZ ... I can tell you that the new CZ/DW RZ's are tough and built tight, ... I'd say you're okay running Underwood through it, although I think it would help the longevity of your 10mm 1911 by installing a flat bottomed firing pin stop.
Thanks, I've got one ordered. After doing some research that seems like a good idea.
I'd give some thought to a flat bottom FPS.
Definitely a FB-FPS. Very first thing I suggest, even before a heavier recoil spring. I run my Para with a FB-FPS and a 25lb main (hammer) spring. I stick with the 18.5 lb recoil spring. Runs very, very well.
I'm not putting one in my Limited today. Reports I have gotten says only do this if you up the hammer spring.
Reports are wrong then.
Essentially we are moving the fulcrum of a lever when we install a FB-FPS. When that happens, it changes the amount of work that must be done to balance the equation:
d1*w1 = d2*w2
In this equation, d1 is the distance between the point the slide intercepts the hammer and the center of the hammer pin. w1 is the weight of recoil needed to cock the hammer. d2 is the distance between the point where the hammer strut attaches to the hammer and the center of the hammer pin, and w2 is the weight of the hammer spring.
If we decrease d1 while leaving d2 and w2 alone then we have to increase w1 (weight of the recoil needed to move the slide).
Similarly with the hammer spring (w2). If you increase w2 while leaving d2 and d1 the same, then w1 must also go up.
So, you get the most benefit by increasing w2 while decreasing d1. Both these changes require w1 to increase.
But, either change by itself will also have an impact on w1, a positive one for our needs.
So, I am not sure where you got that information IC, but it is wrong. Or Archimedes was. :P
It's a ladder. Put the flat bottom in and the hammer takes a bigger beating and more force in the backwards direction. It should be upped to help there.
Get all that done and you may need to up the mag spring to keep it feeding right. They make a 1911 Sprinco. I'm trying it tonight and hope it's the cure.
Not buying. Flat bottom firing pin stops weren't invinted for us 10mm guys.
In fact, the flat bottom style with a barely there radius is what His High Priestness John Moses Browning spec'd in the original 1911 design and what all the Model 1911's shipped with up to the 1911A1. They were changed to the current design because of the whining of soldiers that the gun was too hard to hand cycle.
The benefit of a flat bottom stop, more than anything else, is the reduction in felt recoil. I have never delved into why the felt recoil is less, but I would guess it's because it slows the slide velocity. That means that big heavy moving part that impart muzzle flip has much less momentum when the recoil spring housing hits the frame block.
We 10mm guys benefit from it because accelerate the slide even more.
But don't take my word for it.
Johnny at forum.m1911.org is one of the most knowledgable guys on the interwebs when it comes to the 1911. Here is what he has to say about 1911, 10mm, and FBFPS:
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=107706&postcount=17
Quote
..and have been installing the small-radiused stops on the custom 10mm buildups, with great success. They discovered that the 5-inch guns are afforded the same impact buffering with an 18-pound recoil spring, a small radius on the stop, and a 23-pound mainspring as with the large radius stop (7/32nds) a 20-pound mainspring, (the darling of the 3-pound trigger set) and a 22-pound recoil spring. I believe that it was Ned Christiansen
that experimented with it first...and it caught on.
ps. That whole thread is a good read...if you have time to digest 50 pages about EGW's Flat bottom firing pin stop. I never have gotten through the whole thing. Maybe there is a surprise twist at the end.
Let me qualify one thing.
If you take a 1911 that is working like a top, and you change to a FB FPS, you may have to adjust the radius if you experience issue in feed reliability. The amount of radius does alter the momentum of the slide, and as a result it could introduce short cycling or other failures, especially with light loads.
But, I do take issue with the idea that you have to up the mainspring strength if you reduce the radius on the firing pin stop or you will do damage to a hammer of decent quality.
Someone did all the ACTUAL tests, not what you read and it doesn't agree with your THEORY.
First, in modern technical parlance, a theory (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?gwp=13&s=theory) is not someones idea. It is an idea that has withstood rigorous empirical testing. Please see definitions 1,2 and 3 of the word.
Second, I documented my theory with references to articles written by the guys who actually performed the tests. In them they site the specific weights of the recoil and main springs they use, as well as the radius they placed on the leading edge of the flat bottom stop. Further, they document the results of changing that radius and the application of the different radii in modern firearm design.
QuoteI believe that it was Ned Christiansen that experimented with it [10mm + FB FPS ] first...and it caught on Quote.
I am open to learning something new. If you have empirical data to share, please reference and share it. I am not trying to bag on you at. Just what you are saying goes against the data I have read about the subject. Data that is well documented and has been derived from well-respected, independent sources.
We can disagree. If you don't up the hammer spring you have gained very little of what it's intended to do for you. That's what people actually using the setup have expressed. I agree with my own actual results.
Really...I would love to see the accounts first hand. Do you have any links I could read? I am NOT trolling you.
Google the 1911 boards and tons of hits will come up with user feedback. I have used one in my 1911 and all my Witness pistols. A call to Wilson about proper setup using one might give even better info.