Just got home from some 10mm range time. Shot the 200gr. XTP's from Underwood for the first time today. These rounds are from the Nickel cased loads that he was selling a month or two ago. I could not get these rounds to shoot properly at all.
A little background on what I am shooting...I have a Glock 20. I shot with both the stock setup as well as with a 6 inch KKM and a 22lb recoil spring. Both stock and aftermarket setups failed to properly fire these rounds from Underwood.
It appeared to me that the casings were getting hit by the slide when they were being ejected. All the rounds ejected from the firearm, but dropped right by my feet. The next round failed to feed and the ejected casing was crushed in at the bullet end. Every shot fired was identical with both stock and aftermarket setups. Upon inspection, it looked like the primers may be a bit flattened. The fired primers had a raised rectangle where the primer recessed into the firing pin opening. I only shot a few rounds and then gave up on these rounds...not to be fired again.
I also have 165gr. and 180gr. TMJ's from Underwood. These rounds fired flawlessly. The primers looked normal and the rounds ejected and fed like clockwork. I will also note that the 165's and 180's have brass casings.
Not sure if this is an issue with that funky nickel that Underwood got a hold of or not. Needless to say, Kevin is getting contacted and will hopefully exchange this for something better.
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh39/tlwolter/picsay-1372628670_zps6f6c37e0.jpg) (http://s252.photobucket.com/user/tlwolter/media/picsay-1372628670_zps6f6c37e0.jpg.html)
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh39/tlwolter/picsay-1372628648_zpsca2ae823.jpg) (http://s252.photobucket.com/user/tlwolter/media/picsay-1372628648_zpsca2ae823.jpg.html)
I'll add another photo. Notice the 3 "burrs" that are seen on the case on the left. These are also present on all rounds to a varying degree.
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh39/tlwolter/IMG_20130630_173018_zps39b83edd.jpg) (http://s252.photobucket.com/user/tlwolter/media/IMG_20130630_173018_zps39b83edd.jpg.html)
Have you tried them using just the factory recoil spring setup?
There have been a few Glock 20's that have had issues with the heavy bullets (200 & 220 cast bullets) exhibiting this issue as well.
I am not a Glock,pistol shooter, do those burrs match the edges of barrel ramp? looks to me like you need a stronger Recoil Spring,you may be breaking your wrist, causing the brass to hit the slide on ejection,.......
this not a 10mm. but the recoil, is what we are looking at, watch the wrist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AMdr5HQWUck
I'm no expert by no means and haven't owned or shot a glock 10mm, but I have a couple of 1911's in 10mm and I believe I purchased the same ammo in your pics. My cases all flew about 20 to 25' behind me at about 4 o'clock and they looked great nothing like yours. Well one good thing you didn't have any blowouts that's a good thing. Let us know what happens with your glock.
The Glock is in perfect condition. Shot close to 500 rounds after shooting the 200gr XTPs and everything was flawless. This also includes shooting other 200gr XTP rounds from Hornady and Doubletap. I also shot many other Underwood rounds with no issues at all. Anytime I would return to try the Underwood 200gr XTP with the nickel case...problems. The cases from all the other rounds flew a good distance as well, including the light Remington UMC's that I shot.
The burrs do not appear to line up with the edges of the barrel ramp. Can't say 100%, but I tried to rotate the case around to get the 3 points to line up with the ramp and could not.
I shot with both a stock recoil spring as well as a 22 lb spring. Almost all my shooting was with the KKM and the 22lb spring, but when I had issues with this load, I did go back to stock to see what would happen. No change in results. The_Shadow...are you saying that the issues you had were corrected by using a stock spring with the heavier loads?
I do have a note into Kevin at Underwood. Hopefully I'll hear from him tomorrow and see what his take is on it.
I have just started shooting with my own "new to me" Glock20SF as purchased almost new in the box. So far I have had no issues, but I only shot 200 gr handloads so far in 10mm and several 9x25Dillon from the LWD 6" all with my factory recoil system. No issues with my Glock 29 as used in stock as well as several configurations with other barrels for 10mm, 40S&W,357Sig and 9x25Dillon.
My questions were geared to find out what you have tried so far, hoping to learn more about what is going on. Not having the ammo to study personally it is harder to do a diagnosis. It seems to be specific to that particular ammo... ???
It would be interesting to see what is inside and measured looking for solutions or answers! :-\
The impulse of those rounds vs, the pressure curve could be holding them tightly to the chamber walls as they are being ejected, pulling loose from the extractor hook before they reach the ejector to knock them free of the opening of the returning slide. They are being jammed by the returning slide as they bounce around, before they actually clear the ejection port.
Possible underpowered ammo? Those primers don't look nearly as flat as anything Underwood I've shot so far! That doesn't mean it's underpowered but it is possible; although it would have to be REALLY underpowered to not eject from a stock G20. Mine ejected fine with 40 S&W target ammo.
I just got some of that and will check back this week with results.
I have stock gen4 20
Worthless hindsight, but I wish we knew what velocity you were getting. Maybe you could sent some to The_Shadow to hands-on investigate, especially now that he has a full sized Glock 10mm too.
My stock Glock feeds the Federal 180 fmj without a hitch. It also feeds PMC 200 grain without a hitch, and that is only getting 1050 fps. I don't think the Underwood load could be that underpowered.
Same here with the 200gr PMC, gen-4 G20
Just got off the phone with Kevin at Underwood. Those who have spoken with him before can attest that he is a pleasure to talk with and backs his products 100%. In regards to the issue with these 200 grain xtp's, he chalked it up to issues with the Nickel cases. He wasn't able to provide a cause for the problems I experienced, but there have been various issues that have been reported with some of the nickel cased loads. In regards to using nickel in the future...he said never again!
Kevin offered to replace my nickel cased rounds with brass as soon as he has parts in inventory. A call tag will be sent with to return what I have now. Great customer service for certain! I am hopeful that these will perform as well as the other Underwood ammo I have been shooting.
Well it worked great for me.
I shot off 15 rd. All fed and ejected great
This was at 25 yards using my mc tank bag as a rest
(http://i43.tinypic.com/67pe0o.jpg)
The cases I was able to recover
(http://i39.tinypic.com/qxopir.jpg)
was the snapiest round ive shot so far.
I brought along 5 corbon 165s and they were pretty snappy as well
if I need to get better pics of the primers I will as well as the box with all numbers
I'm glad to hear that Kevin is going back to brass. I talked to him on the phone about a week before he released the 10mm loads in nickel. We both agreed that we would personally rather have brass but there were customers requesting it probably due to hype from other manufacturers who load their "premium" self defense loads with nickel cases.
Or just maybe due to what was available at the time it did not work out. The ammo market was under tremendous stress. Im just saying.
I noticed on the 1911 forum that there has been a rash of defective ammo lately with the ruptured cases. It seems like most of them I've run across have been straight brass cased ammo.
I see this has been happening with several different manufacturers ammo in 9mm,45acp and 10mm.
The latest batch of Underwood 200 gr xtp I received on Wednesday has brass cases. I am happy :D
Just an update on this issue. I did receive replacement ammo from Underwood. This time it was brass cased. I finally got a chance to get out and shoot and this time it was perfect. Never found out what was causing the nickel cased 200gr XTP's to fail to properly eject, but the brass replacements work just fine.
That's good to hear.