My Witness slide cracked today during my annual gun qualification for my job. Of course, it's the rounded slide that many have reported to crack. I was using my own re-loads. 180 gr Montana Gold FMJ, Winchester brass, Federal Primers and 9.5 gr of N105 powder. Both of the rear sight screws backed out almost all of the way as well. These are not nuclear loads. 1200 fps.
Damn it. I need this gun for work.
(http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz160/DarkHelmet_01/2013-06-07_13-37-07_721.jpg) (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/DarkHelmet_01/media/2013-06-07_13-37-07_721.jpg.html)
Hopefully they will replace it with a "real" slide. The old square style. Mine has about 5K rounds and it is like new.
Sorry men, but I don't see how ANYONE feels good about shooting the EAA Witness 10MM guns.No way I would shoot even 1 round thru them.
Sean
Grim Reaper, OUCH! :o Contact EAA and ask for them to make it right by you! With the new heavier slide it should be good to go! I see this as an opportunity for you to get a more bullet proof pistol 8). Wish you all the luck getting it back fixed up with the squared slide.
If we were closer, I could help you out with a loaner like a S&W1086... ;D
I don't know. But from all I've seen/heard around here it seems they aren't that bad of a choice in certain models/setups. Plus they do go for a pretty reasonable price that makes it easier to afford upgrades compared to starting with a platform that costed much more to begin with. I'll personally stick with my Glocks, but have a hard time saying anything literally bad about the 10mm Witness line up when looking at the big picture. No doubt I can also see how some would and simply will be rubbed the wrong way by them. In the end I'm just glad we have all the choices we do.
Grim Reaper; Best of luck on getting one of the square slides if that's the route you choose to take, or EAA simply replacing your current slide with another new one at no cost to you.
Grim, I don't think you used enough symbols in your topic. A cracked slide is probably worth a few more. Sorry that happened, hopefully they make good on it with what you want. Good luck.
I just purchased this on Gunbroker. 2013 model.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=346393732
Nice! A fresh NIB. Once they get it to you I expect you'll be back in the swing of things and ready to rock and roll. My uneducated guess is that the price ended up being quite reasonable too.
Quote from: REDLINE on June 07 2013 04:16:10 PM MDT
Nice! A fresh NIB. Once they get it to you I expect you'll be back in the swing of things and ready to rock and roll. My uneducated guess is that the price ended up being quite reasonable too.
$470, which is almost $100 below retail. Actually that's the lowest price I have ever paid for a NIB Witness. I have never had a blued Witness before. I hope the finish is good. I've only had wonderfinish over the years.
We could say the same about shooting Glocks :-X :D
If you haven't shot one it's something hard to explain the hand feel and accuracy. Nothing that has been shot by me equals the hand feel.
Can I share your picture on my EAA FB page? I always ask.
At any rate it's unfortunate but we know never a report of someone being injured by the cracks. Call them up and get the square slide like they offer standard on all now. Only problem is, I called them today and they are in the middle of a move until next Tuesday. They may not be able to locate the slide for you before then.
You can use the picture. Will EAA replace it without a receipt? When I first purchased it 5 years ago it had some flaws in the wonderfinish. EAA had me send it back to them with the original receipt. When they returned it my receipt wasn't in the box. They kept it or lost it.
If you purchased it new it's covered for life. They should have your serial on file from last time. I have copies of mine
<-------- Just went and checked his two and still all good!
Common area it seems.
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/316130_254202807951092_525915705_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/304915_254202827951090_746837988_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/310823_254202867951086_98271768_n.jpg)
:o
Must be a ton of stress at that area. The rounding of the slide strips away the surrounding steel. Its probably not reinforced enough with that metal gone.
This is so bizarre just yesterday my buddy called and just came from the range with his 2007 witness 10mm compact and noticed a crack in his slide.
He said it has the wonder finish on it and he was'nt even shooting the full power stuff. I'm sorry to hear about your gun Grim Reaper and glad you did'nt get hurt.
He called EAA and was told to ship it back and they would make it right for him. Did EAA issue a recall on these slides or are they waiting until the slide hits someone in the head
and does serious damage. My buddy said his was cracked on both sides he noticed after he got home and inspected it and if he would have kept shooting it who knows what the outcome would have been.
All of these issues started in 2007-2008. Right at the time they switched the rear sight.
When EAA first came out with the new sight, they re-machined the slide to fit the new sight. It already had the old rear sight groove machined into it. Not sure if this means they could no longer get the older sight so they switched to the new sight and didn't want to waste the slides that were ready for the old type sight. But it never sat well with me since I first opened the box. I have attached a picture to show you what I mean. That, plus the rounded slide never looked right to me. I always liked the way the older square slide Witnesses looked. Not sure why they switched to the round crap. Also, this one has always had feeding issues that I have never figured out. I tried switching to the K10 mags. Still jams. Still jams with a more powerful recoil spring. I'm going to send it back to them with a letter telling them I love the products and have been a customer for 15 years, but this is unacceptable. I must love these guns because I went and bought another one within an hour of realizing this one was cracked.
(http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz160/DarkHelmet_01/2013-06-07_17-24-12_454.jpg) (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/DarkHelmet_01/media/2013-06-07_17-24-12_454.jpg.html)
Once we get used to things a certain way it's hard to let go. I feel you did right getting yourself another. And in the mean time you can feel the freedom (even if it costs a couple bucks) of toying with the old one in any way you want since you technically don't need it anymore. Of course fixed back up however you decide, a backup is always nice to have available too!
Quote from: REDLINE on June 07 2013 08:36:41 PM MDT
Once we get used to things a certain way it's hard to let go. I feel you did right getting yourself another. And in the mean time you can feel the freedom (even if it costs a couple bucks) of toying with the old one in any way you want since you technically don't need it anymore. Of course fixed back up however you decide, a backup is always nice to have available too!
I'm gonna use the internal components to turn a single action Witness hunter into a double action.
I'm not a metallurgist but is that a heat treat issue?
Quote from: uz2bUSMC on June 07 2013 09:16:18 PM MDT
I'm not a metallurgist but is that a heat treat issue?
Heat treat issue and/or too little metal in that location.
Quote from: 475/480 on June 07 2013 03:39:34 PM MDT
Sorry men, but I don't see how ANYONE feels good about shooting the EAA Witness 10MM guns.No way I would shoot even 1 round thru them.
Sean
Tons of Witness pistols have been sold over the years. They had one bad stretch. The problem has been mostly identified. I knew this would eventually happen because I had the rounded slide. All gun makes have problems. Just google "glock cracked slide" or "delta elite frame crack." There are many more problems associated with other guns. I felt comfortable purchasing a new Witness today, less than an hour after I found the crack because I know the problem has been corrected. In fact, there are a few more on gunbroker NIB for $500. I might buy 1 more just to have an extra on hand.
I guess I should count myself lucky that both my 10mm Compact and Longslide are the old style Flat Sided Slides
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/denstinettm14/10mmWitnessSet-up.jpg)
Most security positions that are armed are not armed with a Tanfoglio pistol that I am aware of, certainly not law enforcement here in the states. if I were you id ditch that for work and at least and get something that is highly regarded for armed work.A Glock if you wish to stay with a 10mm since your employer is giving you the green light for caliber or a Sig Sauer in either 9,.40 or .45. Id stick with a DAO.JMHO.
Quote from: pacapcop on June 08 2013 07:50:07 PM MDT
Most security positions that are armed are not armed with a Tanfoglio pistol that I am aware of, certainly not law enforcement here in the states. if I were you id ditch that for work and at least and get something that is highly regarded for armed work.A Glock if you wish to stay with a 10mm since your employer is giving you the green light for caliber or a Sig Sauer in either 9,.40 or .45. Id stick with a DAO.JMHO.
I kind of put myself in this situation. Our company policy is 9mm or .40 only. However the owner really wanted me to get my armed security license, but I told him I only have 10mm semi-autos. He made an exception just for me. He won't give me permission to carry another 10mm, and he told me if I get a new gun it better be in 9mm or .40. Most of our guys carry a Glock 22 or Sig 226. I'm strongly considering getting an M&P40.
I don't know much about the M&P but I see it's stricker fired and looks pretty good in reviews. If your working with others in some cases sharing ammo in a crises counts, something to consider. Im not trying to discourage you one bit, just bringing in some perspective when paid to carry and your life and life of others are on the line. If this was your personal CCW only, then it's a moot issue. Id say the M&P should serve you well and it's designed for balls to the wall. Witness, not so sure. Good luck.
I bought my Elite Matchs from discountgun on gunbroker. He was good to work with.
Let us know how you like the poly.
I have shot an M&P in 40. They are nice guns.
Quote from: 475/480 on June 07 2013 03:39:34 PM MDT
Sorry men, but I don't see how ANYONE feels good about shooting the EAA Witness 10MM guns.No way I would shoot even 1 round thru them.
Sean
Hey now, have you ever even actually fired one is the first question that pops in my mind. Or are you just basing this opinion because of something you've read somewhere?
NOOOOOOOOooooooooo.-
And I NEVER will. I did not say the guns looked bad or even shot bad. I do not like the fact the slides are cracking on some guns. To each there own . I prefer to keep my hands and fingers. Kinda like shooting UW ammo >:D.
NO THANKS.
Sean
Sean
Quote from: gandog56 on June 09 2013 07:39:00 AM MDT
Quote from: 475/480 on June 07 2013 03:39:34 PM MDT
Sorry men, but I don't see how ANYONE feels good about shooting the EAA Witness 10MM guns.No way I would shoot even 1 round thru them.
Sean
Hey now, have you ever even actually fired one is the first question that pops in my mind. Or are you just basing this opinion because of something you've read somewhere?
I talked to EAA today and they want me to send in the entire gun. That means I have to pay the FFL fee, shipping costs and they want $20 for return shipping. That's damn near $100 for a slide that is worth $150. Why should I have to pay that when its supposed to be covered by warranty? I might as well order a new slide for an extra $50 and save myself the hassle of shipping through an FFL and the long wait time to get it back from EAA.
Quote from: 475/480 on June 10 2013 09:15:16 AM MDT
NOOOOOOOOooooooooo.-
And I NEVER will. I did not say the guns looked bad or even shot bad. I do not like the fact the frames are cracking on some guns. To each there own . I prefer to keep my hands and fingers. Kinda like shooting UW ammo >:D.
NO THANKS.
Sean
Did I miss something? I am unaware of any failures of Tanfoglio guns due to frame cracking.
Quote from: Grim Reaper on June 10 2013 09:29:23 AM MDT
I talked to EAA today and they want me to send in the entire gun. That means I have to pay the FFL fee, shipping costs and they want $20 for return shipping. That's damn near $100 for a slide that is worth $150. Why should I have to pay that when its supposed to be covered by warranty? I might as well order a new slide for an extra $50 and save myself the hassle of shipping through an FFL and the long wait time to get it back from EAA.
And this is why EAA has a well deserved reputation for terrible customer service.
If you're shipping it back to manufacturer, why do you have to go through an FFL? I've sent Rugers back and its just off to UPS and back to my front door. Have the laws changed or does EAA do things differently?
Quote from: LeMat on June 10 2013 10:06:21 AM MDT
If you're shipping it back to manufacturer, why do you have to go through an FFL? I've sent Rugers back and its just off to UPS and back to my front door. Have the laws changed or does EAA do things differently?
I live in Seattle. I might be able to go outside the city and see if the surrounding counties allow it. But in the city they require an FFL. It might even be statewide by now. The last time I tried in 2008 they made me ship via FFL.
Hold on.There is no requirement for a FFL to my knowledge. Fed Ex should do the trick. Side note,i sent my compact in with a cracked FRAME.I used nothing but lite loads, maybe med every once in a while. The crack was behind the left thumb safety. Mind you this was the wonder finish compact and I maybe put over 3000 rnds thru her. Jury still out. Personally,ill stick with a Glock or my beloved 1006. Now im aware firearms break, but lets see what happens. Upper tier Tanfoglio seems to be ok, no more base for me. It will be a range piece. Also im aware EAA is in process of relocating.Please God,let Sig make a 10.
Your right, it was the slides.
Sean
[/quote]
Did I miss something? I am unaware of any failures of Tanfoglio guns due to frame cracking.
[/quote]
And this is why EAA has a well deserved reputation for terrible customer service.
[/quote]
Quote from: Grim Reaper on June 10 2013 09:29:23 AM MDT
I talked to EAA today and they want me to send in the entire gun. That means I have to pay the FFL fee, shipping costs and they want $20 for return shipping. That's damn near $100 for a slide that is worth $150. Why should I have to pay that when its supposed to be covered by warranty? I might as well order a new slide for an extra $50 and save myself the hassle of shipping through an FFL and the long wait time to get it back from EAA.
According to federal firearm transportation and shipping laws, you do not have to use an FFL middle man. I've done it many times. The manufacturer is an FFL, and you can send/receive to/from them. Just no USPS for the "gun" part of a gun, such as a handgun frame (everything else is just "parts", which is OK with USPS). UPS will require 2nd day air, and it has to be declared a firearm. I've only received from FedEx, so I don't know what the requirements are.
Quote from: pacapcop on June 10 2013 12:49:55 PM MDT
Side note,i sent my compact in with a cracked FRAME.I used nothing but lite loads, maybe med every once in a while. The crack was behind the left thumb safety. Mind you this was the wonder finish compact and I maybe put over 3000 rnds thru her. Jury still out.
As far as I can tell all Witness frames, including the Elite series, will crack in the tiny strip of metal behind the magazine release. It is a non issue and an area where a little finite element analysis would have probably told them to leave a gap in the casting there.
Your crack behind the thumb safety is a new issue I have not seen nor heard of before. Got any pictures?
Quote from: DM1906 on June 10 2013 01:03:08 PM MDT
Quote from: Grim Reaper on June 10 2013 09:29:23 AM MDT
I talked to EAA today and they want me to send in the entire gun. That means I have to pay the FFL fee, shipping costs and they want $20 for return shipping. That's damn near $100 for a slide that is worth $150. Why should I have to pay that when its supposed to be covered by warranty? I might as well order a new slide for an extra $50 and save myself the hassle of shipping through an FFL and the long wait time to get it back from EAA.
According to federal firearm transportation and shipping laws, you do not have to use an FFL middle man. I've done it many times. The manufacturer is an FFL, and you can send/receive to/from them. Just no USPS for the "gun" part of a gun, such as a handgun frame (everything else is just "parts", which is OK with USPS). UPS will require 2nd day air, and it has to be declared a firearm. I've only received from FedEx, so I don't know what the requirements are.
That's federal law. Seattle may have a LOCAL law. But I just shipped a pistol UPS to another C&R license holder. UPS required 2 day shipping (And the much greater charge) to ship a pistol. I think Fed-Ex makes you use overnight on pistols.
Laws Suck when they cause much more hassle than good. If I want to live in a nanny state I'll go to Cuba but I don't so I won't.
I think we need to revert back to Wild West law. Sure, a couple things would have to be grandfathered in because of changing times, but...
Okay, sorry for the rant. ;D
As for;
Quote from: Grim Reaper on June 10 2013 09:29:23 AM MDTI talked to EAA today and they want me to send in the entire gun. That means I have to pay the FFL fee, shipping costs and they want $20 for return shipping. That's damn near $100 for a slide that is worth $150. Why should I have to pay that when its supposed to be covered by warranty? I might as well order a new slide for an extra $50 and save myself the hassle of shipping through an FFL and the long wait time to get it back from EAA.
Yeah, that sucks about warranty vs cost and all. Even though it's on a whole nother level, it reminds me of the host of low cost items that have lifetime warranties where if the cheap POS breaks or stops working you have to send it back to the company on your dime which costs more than buying another of the same item brand new.
Just depends on the company. I think Glock even handles service/warranty stuff better than EAA. Then you have a companies like Wilson Combat who not only pay for everything down to the last cent no matter how many times it needs to be returned for whatever, and have a turn around time that rarely exceeds 24-48 hours, and I think they overnight everything back to you or your FFL, whichever the case may be.
Such is life. What really cooks my goose is when a high dollar item needs anything under warranty and they take a similar route to EAA about it. >:( That just isn't right.
You pay for everything including a free warranty. Wilson gets it upfront in their costs. EAA gets it in making it so hard and expensive to do it they hope you will just buy a new one and save everybody the hassle and them the free work. I always love when I see lifetime warranty. That means lifetime of the company,lifetime of you, or lifetime of the product that had the warranty. And shipping guns is even worse because we all try to stay legal and everybody has different rules. If you own it youdo not have to ship from an FFL. You have to ship to an FFL. When the gun is returned if you are the registered owned the manafacture can ship your gun back to you without shipping to an FFL and going thru the process again on the same gun. At least where i live that is the law. Now you people who live under a different regime in your state or city well do not complain about shipping costs as that is the least of your worries. That is just another one of your taxes or fees that your state needs to collect money so they can give it away to people who need it.I really should not get started.
Go cheap on the shipping non-FFL for sure. Did you get the Ladies? I want to punch my own face when I talk to them ;D They wanted my whole firearm for the Match sight and I insisted on just sending the slide. You could always just send the slide with A VERY DETAILED NOTE on what the issue is and contact them when it gets there 8)
Quote from: RRMan03 on June 10 2013 05:35:59 PM MDTYou pay for everything including a free warranty. Wilson gets it upfront in their costs.
To some extent. But everyone Wilson Combat employs are beyond what many consider even top notch in general. IIRC they have like 2 or 3 guys who do all of their trigger work, and at least two gained all their knowledge from some 1911 guru smith of all time. Plus they have such a great staff and treat them so well (I'm assuming that would include pay and probably benefits) that many of them have been there over 20 years now. All in all I believe there is a lot more blood, sweat, and tears, not to mention attention to detail and quality of parts that go into the making Wilson Combat firearms than anything close to what EAA will ever put out, or care to.
Plus Wilson Combat doesn't run 3 rounds through their gun and call it tested. Wilson Combat runs hundreds of rounds through each gun before it goes out the door, and not just of 1 ammo load, but like 3 that include FMJ, a lighter JHP, and a heavier JHP.
Honestly when you add it all up, I'ld say EAA starts looking like a rip off, and Wilson Combat products start looking like a bargain.
Two totally different animals. Opposite ends of the price range and styles. Razorback and Wilson, Glock and EAA is the better comparison.
True overall.
Quote from: Intercooler on June 11 2013 05:20:12 AM MDT
Two totally different animals. Opposite ends of the price range and styles. Razorback and Wilson, Glock and EAA is the better comparison.
Not sure about that Wesson/Wilson comparison. I was looking at a Wilson Combat 10mm, they wanted over five grand. Think I paid like $850 for my Dan Wesson Razorback 10mm way back when.
Price no but they are both 1911's and single stack
I think Wilson makes a very nice gun.
But, I just can't justify the price in my mind. The CQB is the cheapest 10mm 1911 I can find on the site and it starts at $2800 and change. I could buy 5 Rock Islands, or 3 kimbers, 2.5 Dan Wessons or 2 Fusions for that price. And yes, the Wilson will be better, but twice as good.
Nope. Not for my money anyway.
Yep, just like golf clubs. You can spend (a lot) more, but if it doesn't improve your game, it's just bragging rights for what you spent.
Quote from: gandog56 on June 11 2013 08:51:59 AM MDTI was looking at a Wilson Combat 10mm, they wanted over five grand. Think I paid like $850 for my Dan Wesson Razorback 10mm way back when.
The WC starts out a lot cheaper than the 5 grand at $4100; ;D
http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-hunter.asp#.Ubekznfn-M8 (http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-hunter.asp#.Ubekznfn-M8)
Yup, it's a lot of money. Well, for me anyway. :(
Then there's the $600 RIA 10mm's. Will that Wilson make enough difference to justify that price? I had a custom built Fusion Firearms long slide 10mm Hunter made to order for me for less than 1/2 that Wilson price.
It's all individual perspective. Some say yes, others say no. For some it simply depends if the cost is an object or not.
Basically there is no right or wrong answer for everyone as a whole. Just lots of individual decisions stemming from a broad array of reasoning.
What is surprising to me is the amount of people that make buying decisions based on perception rather than fact, regardless the cost, assuming it is within their means at all. But that is just me and it is none of my business how they spend their funds or why. To each their own.
Poor service and warranty is why I got rid of my Witness, they did lot of us that way back about '04 and '05. Didn't matter if cracked slide or blemish or poor quality mags that would never hold the number they were suppose to hold, they really had a bad rep and I know lots dealers that now refuse to sell the guns.
Any update on the cracked slide?
Did they replace it with a square one?
Quote from: Steve4102 on July 12 2013 07:22:03 AM MDT
Any update on the cracked slide?
Did they replace it with a square one?
I haven't had a chance to do it yet. I'm on vacation across the country right now. I'm gonna handle it as soon as I get back.