Just picked some 205 grain WFN GC LBT bullets up at the gun show this morning from Going Ballistic Bullet Co. (link below) Any suggestions for loads I have Longshot, AA#9, and 800-X. I was thinking of starting with the longshot and working up from a minimum book load with a 200 grain bullet. Looking to end up at about 1200 fps maybe a little less and no more than 1225 fps. Whatever gives good accuracy in that range. I would prefer to do 800-X as a final option even though I will hand weigh all charges since these are very important loads for large angry animals.
http://goingballisticbullets.com/lead-bullets/#!prettyPhoto
I would bet AA#9 would work pretty well with that bullet. Start at about 11 grains and work up. If you run into issues of COAL and powder fitting in the case, you might back off and start again with magnum primers.
You should be able to get to 1200 without pressure issues with #9. Not sure about longshot.
You could review the Underwood 220 Pull down...see link look for the 220
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/)
The cool thing about #9 is that in 10mm in most platforms you can't get enough in the case ahead of any primer to cause catastrophic issues. Exceptions to the rule? Sure, but more few and far between than anywhere close to common.
Thanks for the responses. After I posted the question I went and reviewed all the threads I could find with hardcast bullets on here and GT and ended up with alot of information. I think I will start with #9 then if I don't get what I want go to Longshot and as a last resort 800-x (not because it is a bad option it just requires more trickling of powder than the other 2 which are usually almost exact out of the powder measure)
Hardness of these according to the bullet caster is right at 20
"20" is definitely on the "hard" side. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them. You'll have to see what you can do with them and find out how they'll perform. I'm FAR from an expert on all things hardcast. Hope they don't disappoint.
If you are going to shoot them through a glock, I would be worried about size. Chances are they will be sized .401", and that is too small for my Glock 29.
And if they are too small, you will get leading, no matter how hard they are. The gas check should help with that some.
Have you slugged the bore of the gun these are meant for?
Quote from: REDLINE on June 02 2013 03:32:52 AM MDT
"20" is definitely on the "hard" side. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them. You'll have to see what you can do with them and find out how they'll perform. I'm FAR from an expert on all things hardcast. Hope they don't disappoint.
Double Tap 200 gr WFNGC is a hardness of 21 and the Beartooth 200 gr WFNGC is 22-21 dependeing on the age of the bullet when you get it but will end up at 21.
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 02 2013 09:09:02 AM MDT
If you are going to shoot them through a glock, I would be worried about size. Chances are they will be sized .401", and that is too small for my Glock 29.
And if they are too small, you will get leading, no matter how hard they are. The gas check should help with that some.
Have you slugged the bore of the gun these are meant for?
If they are too small I can talk with the company and have them size another hundred for me to try slightly larger. I only got a hundred to start so it was cheap to see if they will work.
Quote from: doverpack12 on June 01 2013 02:45:20 PM MDT
Just picked some 205 grain WFN GC LBT bullets up at the gun show this morning from Going Ballistic Bullet Co. (link below) Any suggestions for loads I have Longshot, AA#9, and 800-X. I was thinking of starting with the longshot and working up from a minimum book load with a 200 grain bullet. Looking to end up at about 1200 fps maybe a little less and no more than 1225 fps. Whatever gives good accuracy in that range. I would prefer to do 800-X as a final option even though I will hand weigh all charges since these are very important loads for large angry animals.
http://goingballisticbullets.com/lead-bullets/#!prettyPhoto
I ordered some of their 200 gr hard cast flat points for hunting because the 200 gr WFNGC I ordered from doubletap still say "order pending" after 6 weeks of waiting. I sent at least 5 emails asking doubletap to cancel the order with no response. Next step is I will put a block on my bank account to keep them from processing it, if they ever do. Doubletap will never get my business again. Can't wait to get these from going ballistic bullets and try them out. Should be great for bear and deer.
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Seems like more and more as the years pass buy, Double Tap's customer service gets worse and worse. Seems to me back around the beginning of their existance they had generally good customer service. Sometimes things don't get better with time.
Hope you like them Grim. They actually make them just a short ways from me and I never had any idea.
I am anxious to hear reports on how they work as well.
Had a chance to slug the barrel. Grooves 0.402 Lands 0.399 Going Ballistic Bullet 0.4025
.402" is about what I would expect. And glock barrels tend to be very uniform. Hopefully with the gas check this will work out well.
I don't think I would try .4025" plain based with any hope of good results though.
Should it be larger or smaller. I really don't know much about lead bullets or hardcast
For a plain base bullet you want the bullet to be at least .001" larger than measured groove diameter. This is especially important with modern "hardcast" alloy bullets, as the pressure may not enter the elastic deformation range of the alloy, meaning the bullet base won't be forced to confirm to the barrels size (obturate).
I say "modern" because in Elmer Keith's day, 16:1 lead:tin was a hardcat, even though it is only 11-12 BHN. Today, that is just considered a "standard" alloy hardness, with hardcast being 20+ according to marketing info.
If the bullet doesn't fit the bore, then pressurized gas can escape around the bullet, creating super-heated jets of gas plasma. These will melt the surface of the lead and give leading. Ironically, the harder alloys, such as linotype, have significantly lower melting points than pure lead, making this phenomenon worse in hard cast bullets, since they often don't compress and fill the bore, yet melt even more readily when exposed to gas blow-by.
The gas check effectively jackets the base of the bullet, helping to minimize these effect and allowing some additional margin of error.
My measurement was in between the lube grooves on the bullet so it may be 0.001 as you said the minimum should be with the gas check. I will load one bullet with a starting load and check for leading after each successive shot then as I work up a load. Thanks for your help and information. If the bullet turns out to be too small I will talk with the owner and see if I can have him size some slightly larger for me to try.
Loaded a few of the 205 WFNGC tonight. No leading in the barrel worked up to 12.3 grains and was at 1160 fps plan on going a little farther pressure looks good so far. Primers seem to be inconsistent. Sometimes one or two will flatten and the rest will still be nice and rounded. Not much expansion so far.
Powder was AA #9 and OAL 1.25" about one turn of crimp past just touching the brass.
Worked up loads with 12.6, 12.8 and 13.0 grains #9 seated to 1.25". In my G20 these chronographed at 1170, for the 12.6. 12.8 was at 1185 and 13.0 grains produced right about 1200 fps. Now I plan on testing these last three loads for accuracy all three of them give me velocity within the range I wanted to get to. No problems feeding or anything like that. 15 fit in the magazine just fine. No additional pressure signs. Primers look about the same as Winchester silvertips when I shoot them. Expansion is 0.4330 for the 13.0 grain load and goes down about 0.005 each powder increment as it decreases. For Underwood/Buffalo Bore/Double Tap I usually get 0.434 expansion and sometimes with Underwood I am even up to 0.4345
Quote from: doverpack12 on June 10 2013 08:19:10 AM MDT
Expansion is 0.4330 for the 13.0 grain load and goes down about 0.005 each powder increment as it decreases.
I would think you meant to write -0.0005" each powder increment as it decreases.
It is very easy to get caught up in the typing a post... ::)
Quote from: The_Shadow on June 10 2013 10:44:23 AM MDT
Quote from: doverpack12 on June 10 2013 08:19:10 AM MDT
Expansion is 0.4330 for the 13.0 grain load and goes down about 0.005 each powder increment as it decreases.
I would think you meant to write -0.0005" each powder increment as it decreases.
It is very easy to get caught up in the typing a post... ::)
You are correct. 0.0005 increment of expansion for each powder step of 0.2 grains either up or down expansion follows with new starline brass.
dont over crimp as this will reduce the OD of the boolit