They showed today just in time. Only question is... what are they?? :o :-X The bullet isn't a Gold Dot or Montana Gold so a real candidate for Raggedyman. Also the 1350 FPS rating is oddly high and The Shadow will be interested in the powder loading. The headstamp is RP... isn't that Remington?
(http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/919922_537558489615521_385554864_o.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/977846_537558816282155_335433067_o.jpg)
What does the C stand for in JHC? Their product picture shows a Montana Gold:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_images&p=114 (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_images&p=114)
You really don't know what you are getting with Buffalo Bore ???
R-P Remington Arms Company, Inc., Bridgeport CT , and later: Lonoke, AR (also used by CDM of Mexico)
C = Core
R-P = Remington-Peters (Remington)
I don't know what it the difference between them and JHP's. The cavity is deep, but I've seen deeper JHP's, so who knows. That bullet looks like the Remington 180 gr. JHC .40SW LE issue. How about a profile view? I'll see if I have some of the .40's around somewhere for comparison. Good bullet, if that's what they are. I've pulled down some of the .40's and used them for 10mm and .38-40. Held together pretty well at 1700 FPS.
Quote from: Intercooler on May 15 2013 04:24:17 PM MDT
What does the C stand for in JHC? Their product picture shows a Montana Gold:
I am thinking jacketed hollow cavity.
Doesn't that bullet look like something we've seen here recently? Like that company link someone posted with a bullet that was a cross between an XTP and a Nosler?
That's the Selway I posted:
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/397863_531241066913930_1165223215_n.jpg)
Different than that one.
They look a little different. Are they 180's also?
JHC = Jacketed Hollow Cavity Looks like a Nosler bullet...
Remington & Winchester use to make bulk bullets
Yup! Selways are 180gr.
Here are those shots of the Buffalo Bore 180's:
(http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/945273_537584709612899_3654951_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/977831_537584936279543_581413558_o.jpg)
Looks like a bigger cavity. They had them at Cabelas last time I was there. If I get back there soon I might pick up a box or three.
The Buffalo Bore bullets almost look like a modified bullet...given the shortage of components there is no telling what's what as they fill orders these days... ???
I hated to spend for BB but haven't personally done this one. Sadly, is this the usual ammo?
The Hunter is down until the sight arrives but I will do the Match. Probably not worth the ammo doing the 1006 or Razorback?
I have been researching and think it is a Remington bullet to go with the Remington brass :o
(http://www.shootingillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/40-SW-Remington-180-gr-JHP-354x200.jpg)
Or the old Federal bullet.
I was gonna say it looks just like a hydra-shock without that little center post pokey thing inside.
Honestly I thought when I placed the order the bullet would be a Montana Gold or Gold Dot. Seems someone posted here recently showing the same Buffalo Bore round with a Gold Dot ??? They generic the JHC so you can't really say anything about it. I will phone them tomorrow and ask what it is and see if they tell me. Hopefully they can decipher what might be on their own ammo :o
Here is the same one I spoke of with the Gold Dot
http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/32001-glock-20sf-buffalo-bore-180grjhc.html
They went from the Gold Dot to the Montana Gold bullet. I agree, now it looks like it might be the Remington.
At least they are putting ammo out in these tough times.
I would like to see how these bullets hold up at 1256, as listed on the link IC provided. I am willing to bet they are better than the Montana Golds.
All the publisher's readings were low with his setup. I will guess 1315 FPS today out of the Match. See if I predict correctly.
Battle of the 180's today and Kevin's TMJ isn't top or second Dog. It's backed down now for those who wanted it :( The 10mm testing was done back to back to back.
Usual .22LR control followed by 9mm to warm up for the 10mm rounds.
Independence 115gr FMJ (XD 4") 1141, 1150, 1144, 1152, 1144. Average = 1146.2 FPS/ 336 LBS
PBR Ammo V-Supreme 180gr FMJ (Match 4.75") 1309, 1310, 1296, 1309, 1329. Average = 1310.6 FPS/ 687 LBS
Underwood Ammo 180gr TMJ DavidF's Box (Match 4.75") 1300, 1297, 1291, 1299, 1287. Average = 1294.8 FPS/ 670 LBS
Buffalo Bore 180gr JHC (Match 4.75") 1329, 1330, 1328, 1330, 1347. Average = 1332.8 FPS/ 710 LBS. Where Kevin's 180's were before. You could tell these had the most pop of the bunch and if these contain 10.0gr's of Power Pistol it's a good load!
Paused to reload and did PBR and Underwood again.
PBR Ammo V-Supreme 180gr FMJ (Match 4.75") 1297, 1308, 1318, 1318, 1304. Average = 1309 FPS/ 685 LBS
Underwood Ammo 180gr TMJ DavidF's Box (Match 4.75") 1299, 1289, 1288, 1290, 1284. Average = 1290 FPS/ 665 LBS
I will update the sheet where needed.
I think those are fine numbers.The Gel test by TNOUTDOORS with the GDHP 180's proved the juice was a little high (1350) out of a G20 and causing bullet to take on a meteor shape with petals pulled way back.JMHO.
Agree there is nothing wrong with the newer UW ballistics. I wonder if it was planned or if it is just variation in lots.
Looked over my recent 180 xtp's,they are nickel as well.
I am thinking that nickel cases are all Kevin could get his hands on.
That Sunday I called and talked to him for a good long time right after those case ruptures in that 1911. It was in process already but guess he really decided then. Nothing wrong with them, just they aren't the Underwood of old (which I liked). He never did release the 1600 FPS 155 and I can see kind of why and know he probably never will. It was a Canon! I may need to do a re-do on those too...
So now they don't even meet spec? I wonder what else they backed down and when. I've spent a small fortune, for me on his ammo in the last six months or so. As in over 4k of rounds mostly the more expensive offerings . The new numbers might be fine for some but I bought this ammo on all the reviews of it being on the plus side of it's rated velocity. sorry if i'm bitchen a little as I stare at several thousand rounds of watered down Doubletap..
Today was a tad under what have normally got the last couple of boxes (1300). I don't know where the rest of them are at this point but report what I get. Kevin can load them up for those wanting that I am sure. He is in a no win situation it seems.
Von, welcome to the forum! Could be more specific...4k of who's rounds...Double Tap? Underwood?
DT has long be noted for not making the claimed numbers. Underwood on the other had does make the advertised velocities... ???
You can look at it this way,better to be safe than sorry if issues are happening.Your still getting a great deal on real 10 from Underwood.Im still a proponent of Norma spec or close to it.A 170 or 180 at 1300 is a homerun.
Yea Double Tap has been really off the mark even when they changed their rating to a 5" barrel. Buffalo Bore does the same thing for that 1350 FPS rating and I can say it will do it. I may just try my Razorback at one point just to get the numbers. I kind of wanted to save a few though for the Hunter when I get the sight on.
Received my response just now. They have a phone number but you get an answering machine which they warn you about before calling. Mr. Sundles responds at night.
In the last 6 weeks
we've loaded Sierra, Winchester, Remington, Montana Gold, Nosler and Gold
Dot 180gr JHP bullets in that item 21B you are asking about. If we do not
load what good bullets we can get, (we tested them all first, to be certain
they are of the quality we require) we would not be loading ay 180gr. 10MM
ammo at all. Monday we received 50,000 more of the 180gr. Nosler JHP bullets
(which turned out to be one-hell-of-a-bullet) which we will load up in a
couple weeks and it is already presold.......................This ammo
buying frenzy is an impossible situation for us, but we are doing what we
can to keep the public in high quality, powerful ammo.
Tim
I returned his mail with my bullet picture. I would about rule them all out except the Remington which I thought when I saw it. Let's see what I get tomorrow.
Buy Buffalo Bore but you could get any bullet known to man on there :o
I actually thought it was Remington or Winchester bulk bullets when i saw the picture of the BB ammo. The bullet in the Jag brass looks to be Nosler.
Thanks Shadow. I have 4k or more of Kevins ammo. The several thousand rounds of DT was from right after they backed it way down and people were just starting to realize it. So that's how old it is. I have mostly xtp from underwood and maybe a thousand of the 135 from when they were in the white box they used to use. Swampfox used to load the 180 xtp at 1325 or 1350 if requested. I saved 10 boxe's of his ammo, Mike was a great guy.
Kevin's ammo may be backed down from what it was, but when it averages velocities in the 1290s from a 4.75" barrel and is rated for 1300 FPS without pointing out a specific barrel length to achieve 1300 FPS, I consider it to be right on for all practical purposes.
I think a pull down is in order to see how much Kevin dropped the charge weight.
Response to my picture which Remington was wrong:
Sierra Power Jacket.
Tim
Info on them below.
http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=handgun&brandID=6
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785388/sierra-sports-master-bullets-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto-400-diameter-135-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-100 That's the 135 version.
I did get a e-mail from Underwood on a Norma Load 170 jhp 1300 fps. That might be something we add in the future, no concrete plans yet.
For the price they charge and you have no idea what you will receive. No thanks! Done with them.
IC, I understand.
On another note, has anyone heard of Buffalo Bore blowing up a 10mm?
Quote from: Intercooler on May 17 2013 12:02:10 PM MDT
For the price they charge and you have no idea what you will receive. No thanks! Done with them.
We should start a thread with companies we recommend people to buy from. If these companies put out a bad product and their sales fall, they can only blame themselves. I'm about done with doubletap as well. The website says they are 2 weeks behind shipping orders. I ordered some 200 gr cast bullets to reload 3 weeks ago and they still haven't shipped. Sent an email 4 days ago and no reply.
Tim Sundles at least replied with no BS answers. I would rather talk on the phone with him but that's not their business model I guess. Their all Coppers, Hard Cast and FMJ loads are fine being hard to not be what is listed. Nothing their to switch or get unexpectedly. When you plop down $30 on the 180's it could have anything on there. I guess you are just buying for the performance and hoping you get what you want for a bullet. If that isn't the case don't even look to buy these!
Anthony Mowry at PBR Ammo responds great by e-mail and phone if you call him up. No confusion on what you are getting across the board.
Mike McNett of Double Tap hasn't even put any of my reviews up from a couple of years ago. Won't respond to his Facebook or anything else. Can you even get him on the horn? If you order Noslers you get Noslers but the ratings on the box flap you will not get.
Kevin Underwood is different than all of them in my opinion. You can reach him by about every possible channel known in communication. Ring his number and you get Kevin Underwood and he will talk to you as long you have air to keep it going. If it is labeled XTP, Gold Dot, etc... you get it and the performance matches the box rating. He did some Nickel brass but let the buyers know going into it. I have even been able to reach him on a Sunday and he's great to talk with.
If you want a real head banging time try calling EAA Corp up. You get the Ladies on the phone who don't seem to be up on the technical aspects of fielding said calls. I'm not saying because they are Females but rather just don't know all the ins and outs to give you a good feeling. It's real head banging :( :o
Well I see a lot of companies scrambling to make their orders and protect their bottom line. Hell there are Law Enforcement agencies that are getting ammo from the very citizens they protect during these times of uncertainty.
Let's not loose touch with reality, this shortage snafu will pass...then the ammo and or components will be available again at reasonable prices.
In the meantime guys be sure to contact your Senators and Representatives to defeat any and all gun control measures as the libtards are up to no good again! :o
I personally am glad we still have companies producing decent 10mm ammo.
I take nothing away from Buffalo Bore. They are doing their best to put out a quality product during these tough times.
On the flip-side we have another hollow point for gel testing which is a positive to BB using the Sierra. Raggedyman has a few never seen before ones in his stash plus these when I send them. I can't wait to see how they all perform!
Quote from: Intercooler on May 17 2013 08:18:22 PM MDT
On the flip-side we have another hollow point for gel testing which is a positive to BB using the Sierra. Raggedyman has a few never seen before ones in his stash plus these when I send them. I can't wait to see how they all perform!
That's the spirit! 8)
I for one would like to see the results. I'm not aware I've ever seen a Sierra bullet from 10mm tested before, let alone at 1300 FPS.
Hate to say this but I knew this would happen. Seems Double Tap has some really pissed of buyers and can only point the finger right at themselves:
http://www.facebook.com/doubletapammo?fref=ts
I waited a long time for my Nosler order which also showed in-stock. Actually many of the ammo engines still show their ammo's as in-stock. If I had to guess they are just letting the orders submit where Buffalo Bore, PBR, Underwood, etc... either through their own sites or places carrying them show zero bins when they are out. Kevin and Anthony give good updates and their sites are current with what is actually in-stock or coming. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! :o
No reason to hate bringing out truth. If it's negative truth or positive truth I'm just glad we have each other to look out for each other. Things in this world aren't always on the level. When they aren't we are only hurting each other by not pointing it out when we see it. But it seems we do point it out and we can/do then as individuals keep things on as even a keel as possible.
I looked at alot of pictures to try and figure out what bullet I have in my BB 180 JHC box. They look almost identical to an XTP as far as the perforations and cavity size but the cavity has straight walls that do not taper towards the center of the bullet. I narrowed it down the the Winchester and Sierra as far as I can tell. Then I found a picture of a sierra with a slight taper in the lead which mine do not have. So I think they are Winchester 180 JHP bullets. Below are the best two pictures I can get.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Messed up and only got one picture in.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Other bullets that do come to mind are Montana Gold, the non-brass ones
Montana Bullets
(http://montanagoldbullet.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/135x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/10mm_40_180gr_jhp_group.jpg)
Zero brand bullets
(http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/40JHP_med.jpg)
It's crazy when it is hard telling what you might have on there :o
Not a Montana Gold. It' could be a Zero but they are a little more defined in the lead area. My bet is Winchester too.
I ruled out Gold Dot, Montana Gold, Remington, and Nosler. It could be a Sierra or a Winchester from the list in Tim Sundles message earlier in the thread. I bought these probably a month maybe a little more ago. Don't know how long they were on the shelf. These don't typically sell that fast at Sportsmans Warehouse where I bought them. The other box is still on the shelf.
The mouth of those don't look as wide as the Sierra I got in my box. Could always send Tim a message with a picture and ask him to ID his bullet ;)
How does that sierra compare to an XTP. This bullet looks exact on the outside only difference i can find is the hollow cavity shape on the inside.
I sent some to Raggedyman for his gel test the other day. They should be there about now so we will see!
Well. Held together pretty good but didn't drive real deep.