Hi Guys-
So I had a Kaboom! on my Gen 4 Glock 20 at the range (have pics) using some reloads a friend loaned me. Everything looked good on the rounds, but it happened (blew the rear bottom of the round out, the magazine release hit me just under the eye and stuck in my face; my right hand had pinch and burn, but was not seriously injured; magazine shot straight down to floor, and bottom f mag place blew out; frame on the lower cracked, so gun is junk).
Here's my question: After plenty of research, I know all about Glock's unsupported chambers; also know not to use someone else's loads; but since it happened, I'm reluctant to purchase another Glock 20 again for this reason: Prior to the reloads, I had been firing Underwood JHP (180 gr), and wondered if that ammo weakened the barrel, or if it was purely a hot load?
Regardless of th answer to that, is it REALLY safe to fire Underwood ammo out of a Glock?
Most importantly: Is there a 10mm that has a goo reputation for being able to handle Underwood ammo (or at least a good reputation for not blowing up)? I see a million Glock 20 Kaboom vids posted, and I think even if it was the reload, I'm not going to risk Glock again in 10mm.
What's the best/safest 10mm gun?
Get another G20 and put a KKM barrel in it. Problem solved.
I have a Springfield XDm10 4.5 OSP that comes with a fully supported barrel and I have shot nuclear handloads out of it with zero issues.
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Like Alabusa mentioned, get a KKM or other barrel and enjoy your new G20. Also, for me, I only shoot my own hand loads, as well as not letting others shoot them. I am confident in my loading skills, but still won?t do it
Enjoy and be safe
I do not like the captured recoil system, a non captive recoil system can add extra spring pressure at the barrel slide lock up.
Sounds like your friend overcharged or double charged a round during reloading. It happens.
I've used underwood, buffalo bore, double tap, for years in my Glocks. Never had an issue.
First, welcome to the forum. Sorry this had to be your first post.
Glock guns are fine. In order to pass muster for sale in Europe they have to be proofed at 130% of MAP, which works out to about 49,000 PSI once you account for the differences in testing methodology between CIP and SAAMI. Not only does that mean that every pistol has to pass the firing of a proof load, but it must be strong enough that a proof load doesn't cause damage to the firearm. MAP for loaded ammo is 37,500 psi and makers like Underwood are very clear that their ammo is loaded within SAAMI spec. It isn't going to hurt a gun that already passed a nearly 50K PSI proof test with no damage.
I am sure your friend doesn't want to hear this, but your situation was caused by wildly out of spec ammo. If you want to get a different gun there are lots of good options. Chances are this round would have destroyed any of them too.
sounds like it was double loaded
Lesson(s) learned?
also, welcome Viking72, this is an awesome forum? enjoy!
my $.02, I don't claim to know everything but a double charge will overflow the case and be noticeable to the loader. it still could have been caused by an over charge but a bullet that was pushed too far into the brass while being cycled through the action could also have been the culprit.
I'm not a Glock person but other than the non fully supported chamber, I don't think its the gun's fault.
And that's why I don't shoot other people reloads...
A load that is safe in one firearm is not necessarily safe in another. I have 2 30-06s that I load for and my Browning shows pressure indications about .5 grains less than my Remington.
Absolutely, as well as not letting people shoot mine
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 16 2022 07:55:36 AM MST
First, welcome to the forum. Sorry this had to be your first post.
I am sure your friend doesn't want to hear this, but your situation was caused by wildly out of spec ammo. If you want to get a different gun there are lots of good options. Chances are this round would have destroyed any of them too.
First, welcome to the forum. Sorry this had to be your first post.
I have to agree with sqlbullet on this. In my years researching 40 cal KB's in USPSA I have seen Glocks, M&P's and even 2011's destroyed like this. The common denominator is the ammo.
Specifically:
Brass loaded many times.
The type of handloads USPSA shooters normally use. Heavy bullets loaded with fast powders like TiteGroup.
My theory is a weak case, allowing the bullet to telescope into the case raises pressures, (according to research done by Speer and UL in the 70's, shorting the OAL by .050 can double chamber pressures in some cases) that same weak case blows out at the case head and...you know the result.
Jeff
Quote from: Alabusa on February 15 2022 07:52:38 PM MST
Get another G20 and put a KKM barrel in it. Problem solved.
Do you mean that, if I had a hot round, but was using a KKM (or other barrel with a fully supported chamber), I would not have had a Kaboom?
Quote from: Viking72 on February 20 2022 09:50:34 AM MST
Quote from: Alabusa on February 15 2022 07:52:38 PM MST
Get another G20 and put a KKM barrel in it. Problem solved.
Do you mean that, if I had a hot round, but was using a KKM (or other barrel with a fully supported chamber), I would not have had a Kaboom?
Technically we will never know.
Pragmatically the experience of guys that have been around is that round likely would have blown out in any semi-auto barrel.
Sounds like (just speculating) it was quite possibly a double charge. If not, a KKM or other may have lessened or eliminated the kaboom. I have shot tons of hot stuff in my stock G20 with no issues, as well as with a KKM. I guess I just feel better using an aftermarket / fully supported barrel in my Glocks, not that it is necessary.
OP here:
So after several months at the gunsmith, where he was convinced that it was an extractor issue, and all he did in that time was Polish the extractor, he claimed the gun only had 1 FTF in 100 rounds ( and since we were nearing the 500 round break in period (!!), even that would be soon resolved, I was very excited to finally get it back.
Unfortunately, I couldn?t even get the first round to chamber using the factory mag when fully loaded. Using only 15 rounds allowed the round to chamber (ps: The Wilson Combat mags I bought, way back when people were telling me I only needed better mags). Nevertheless, whether stock or WC mags, I?m still getting 3-5 FTF per mag.
The gun totally sucks.
Either it is only RIA?s well documented struggles, or 10mm generally not performing in the 1911 models (ie., I have other 10mm 1911?s which suck in this caliber as well).
I?m sure McKinsey to think any 10mm is a roll of the dice.
How refreshing it was to just pull out my Glock 21 .45 loaded with Underwood JHP, and know every round would cycle and fire properly.
I?m done with 10mm and 1911?s. They absolutely suck.
Quote from: Viking72 on February 15 2022 05:44:36 PM MST
Hi Guys-
So I had a Kaboom! on my Gen 4 Glock 20 at the range (have pics) using some reloads a friend loaned me.
Almost stopped reading at: *some reloads a friend loaned me.* Still, glad you?re okay.
QuotePrior to the reloads, I had been firing Underwood JHP (180 gr), and wondered if that ammo weakened the barrel, or if it was purely a hot load? Regardless of th answer to that, is it REALLY safe to fire Underwood ammo out of a Glock?
Yes. I shoot UW 10mm ammo out of my Gen4 G20 and G40 regularly. No issues. I think the Gen4 10mm factory barrel is actually a better barrel than predecessor versions were.
QuoteMost importantly: Is there a 10mm that has a good reputation for being able to handle Underwood ammo (or at least a good reputation for not blowing up)? I see a million Glock 20 Kaboom vids posted, and I think even if it was the reload, I'm not going to risk Glock again in 10mm.
What's the best/safest 10mm gun?
I have a couple of the 10XX-series guns, besides the Glocks. Also a Sig P220 Match Elite and a custom Delta, but that one has a fitted Bar-Sto barrel.
All have been good guns for shooting the high-performance (
real) 10mm ammo.
Quote from: Viking72 on April 29 2022 09:56:56 PM MDT
OP here:
So after several months at the gunsmith, where he was convinced that it was an extractor issue, and all he did in that time was Polish the extractor, he claimed the gun only had 1 FTF in 100 rounds ( and since we were nearing the 500 round break in period (!!), even that would be soon resolved, I was very excited to finally get it back.
Unfortunately, I couldn?t even get the first round to chamber using the factory mag when fully loaded. Using only 15 rounds allowed the round to chamber (ps: The Wilson Combat mags I bought, way back when people were telling me I only needed better mags). Nevertheless, whether stock or WC mags, I?m still getting 3-5 FTF per mag.
The gun totally sucks.
Either it is only RIA?s well documented struggles, or 10mm generally not performing in the 1911 models (ie., I have other 10mm 1911?s which suck in this caliber as well).
I?m sure McKinsey to think any 10mm is a roll of the dice.
How refreshing it was to just pull out my Glock 21 .45 loaded with Underwood JHP, and know every round would cycle and fire properly.
I?m done with 10mm and 1911?s. They absolutely suck.
I?m not sure what your issue has been with 10mm 1911s (your post was very hard to follow) but I?ve owned several with no issues. I currently have (2) 1911 10mm pistols and (1) double stack 2011 style and they run flawlessly.
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Quote from: Patriot on February 16 2022 07:08:09 AM MST
Sounds like your friend overcharged or double charged a round during reloading. It happens.
I've used underwood, buffalo bore, double tap, for years in my Glocks. Never had an issue.
I try to visually inspect the powder level of every round that goes through the process. I use a couple of old Lee Pro 1000s, the primer stage is where trouble starts with this kind of press, they fail to drop, or run out, or jam up, something. So, I resize and deprime all the cases first progressively, then prime by hand, then flare, charge, and seat and crimp bullets progressively. It takes a little longer but glitches and problems are basically non-existent this way and the finished product is one I trust. It still goes pretty fast since the two stages are both done with a case feeder and progressively, and hand priming goes fast too, plus, there is no down time with bad loads or cases leaking powder because of no primer or any other kind of glitchiness. It's basically trouble free this way.
Quote from: Viking72 on February 20 2022 09:50:34 AM MST
Do you mean that, if I had a hot round, but was using a KKM (or other barrel with a fully supported chamber), I would not have had a Kaboom?
Don't think so... It sounds like a load that would have been an issue in almost any gun.
I've fired many of the comm hot end loads in my G20/3 ( only mod is a 20lb spring ) without issue.... and some of my reloads that were prob hotter.
Not a prob with the stock barrel except the brass gets overworked in the loose chamber area. Never had any signs of case failure.
As to you wanting a stronger gun, the only one I have is a Sig 220/10mm. It is quite a bit heavier as it's fully stainless steel for frame and slide but is built like a tank.
I?ve thought the same thing when examining my P220 Elite, it?s an amazingly sturdy weapon
Sorry to hear this! The Witness line has proven to handle hot 10's just fine.
Good to see you IC!
Quote from: Intercooler on June 02 2022 04:34:31 PM MDT
Sorry to hear this! The Witness line has proven to handle hot 10's just fine.
I had (still have) a box of hot Underwood 150g that smiled the cases in the Glock 20.
They loosened some primer pockets in the Limited Pro Witness.
Loose primer pockets wins in my estimation, but too hot is too hot.
Greg
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 03 2022 06:43:44 AM MDT
Good to see you IC!
Thanks! I'm getting there and hope to shoot some here shortly. Probably next week I'm going to start with some .22/9mm and move to some 10mm stuff. If I can get two trips in next week I want to Chronograph some 10mm rounds on the second visit.
I have a personal objection to buying pistols that I have to modify to be safe. In any case I agree it was most likely the ammunition, probably with an impressed bullet. I do also however prefer a fully supported chamber. The Glocks are strong guns, and up to the task, but feel like blocks of wood. The 1911's are mostly good if you get a reliable one. I have owned about all, and of all, I like my M&P 10mm 4.6 the best. Ergonomically superior to the rest of the polymer strikers for sure, though not quite as accurate as some of the 1911's.
Quote from: Viking72 on April 29 2022 09:56:56 PM MDT
OP here:
So after several months at the gunsmith, where he was convinced that it was an extractor issue, and all he did in that time was Polish the extractor, he claimed the gun only had 1 FTF in 100 rounds ( and since we were nearing the 500 round break in period (!!), even that would be soon resolved, I was very excited to finally get it back.
Unfortunately, I couldn?t even get the first round to chamber using the factory mag when fully loaded. Using only 15 rounds allowed the round to chamber (ps: The Wilson Combat mags I bought, way back when people were telling me I only needed better mags). Nevertheless, whether stock or WC mags, I?m still getting 3-5 FTF per mag.
The gun totally sucks.
Either it is only RIA?s well documented struggles, or 10mm generally not performing in the 1911 models (ie., I have other 10mm 1911?s which suck in this caliber as well).
I?m sure McKinsey to think any 10mm is a roll of the dice.
How refreshing it was to just pull out my Glock 21 .45 loaded with Underwood JHP, and know every round would cycle and fire properly.
I?m done with 10mm and 1911?s. They absolutely suck.
I too am very confused with your post. It is a bit hard to follow but I'll respond with a few questions.
1. Why did you take your RIA to a gunsmith? RIA's CS is well known for taking care of any issues that come up. My own experience with them was very positive.
2. Since your putting 15 rounds in the magazine, I suspect you have a HC #52009?
When did Wilson start making mags for that model? I've had mixed results with their single stack mags. The original 45 acp mags (both 10 round and 47D's) have been flawless for me but their 38 super, 9mm have been mixed results depending on make of gun and I still have a 10mm mag needed extensive work to get it to function most of the time. Tripp Cobra mags are still the best IMO.
3. Your blanket statement that RIA's and 1911's (in general) suck in 10mm is rather opposite from what most of us have experienced. Personally, I'd take my 10mm RIA (or any of my 1911's) over any Glock ever made.
Jeff
I sent my RIA Rock Ultra FS HC in a couple years ago per Shawn Fairbairn, RIA?s Chief Gunsmith for some non warranty work. Shawn was incredibly helpful, and had it back to me within 2 weeks, can?t say enough good things regarding their customer service, and work done, not to mention it?s been an awesome weapon for its price point.
As for the 10mm cartridge in general, I can?t shoot enough of them😀 Also, my G20, RIA, P220 Elite, and Hi Point 1095TS have all performed amazingly well with that cartridge
Anyone notice that this thread jumped from a G20 Kaboom to RIA/1911s and 10mms in general suck? Lots of suppositions and generalizations, as well?
So I?ll ask politely. Are you trolling us Viking72? This sounds like a compilation of internet lore. The 15 round Wilson mag certainly seems odd.
😂