Being an old IPSC/IDPA shooter, we have shot 1911s for decades. 100s of Ks of .45 major over the years and only ever cracked one frame, a Gold Cup many years ago.
We are new to the 10mm and would like to hear from folks with LOTS of 10mm rounds through their 1911s; what brand, an estimate of how many rounds fired and any problems would be of interest. We have a Guncrafter and a Dan Wesson Bruin in 10mm.
Thanks for your input.
I have a Para Ordnance, Rock Island and Ruger.
The Para probably has 20-30K rounds of 10mm through it and it had a rough life as a 40 S&W before it was my gun. No idea total round count but would not be shocked at all to find out it was over 100K rounds of 40 major before it was mine. It was pretty dog eared when I got it.
The Rock and Ruger have been babied by comparison, with probably less than 5K rounds each.
The only cracking I am aware of that Colt had to address on the Delta Elite was probably the same one you got on your Gold Cup. The left frame rail would crack above the slide stop opening. This is a stress focus area due to that opening. The crack did not impact function. Colt's engineers solution was to just remove the metal above the opening. Can't crack what isn't there, and removing the metal also removed the sharp corners that cause the stress to focus there. They calculated then, and FEA since has also shown, that the frame does not gain any strength from that metal, so they didn't make it any weaker by removing it.
I would say in general a 1911 frame running 10mm will have about 80-85% the service life compared to running 45 ACP. As you have already noted, that will be many 100K's of rounds, probably well into the millions. 800,000 primers will cost you $20,000.00 in pre-covid prices. The cost of a frame after 800,000 rounds is nothing.
Ditto to what sqlbullet has said.
I have a blued DE purchased new in 87 or 88, can't remember. That one could probably use a new barrel, but still shoots pretty accurately. The slide/frame are fine but the lockwork is a little worn, too. I stopped counting after 30,000 rounds and that was a couple of decades ago.
What I would add is lubrication and cleaning is as much a factor as caliber. I almost always clean my guns every time I shoot them and have used Tetra grease on the rails of my 1911s for a long time. I'm sure there are other decent products out there, but that's what's worked for me.
Thanks for the replys.
Here's a link tracing our journey to the 10mm http://www.thegunmag.com/re-evaluating-wilderness-handgun/.
Thanks again; looking forward to more feedback.
I have and have had a fairly large number of 1911 based 10mm pistols, and I don't put that much mileage on any one of them as they all get used equally, none for competition though I have use my Gold Cup Delta at a few pin and steel matches.
So, I'm wondering why the OP is asking? I mean it's not like anyone is seriously going to enter IPSC or IDPA and run the number of rounds through it in training to get into the upper classes, are they? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see any 10mm used for any other application needing a large round count through them. So what's to worry about?
Quote from: gnappi on August 05 2021 09:35:21 AM MDT
I have and have had a fairly large number of 1911 based 10mm pistols, and I don't put that much mileage on any one of them as they all get used equally, none for competition though I have use my Gold Cup Delta at a few pin and steel matches.
So, I'm wondering why the OP is asking? I mean it's not like anyone is seriously going to enter IPSC or IDPA and run the number of rounds through it in training to get into the upper classes, are they? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see any 10mm used for any other application needing a large round count through them. So what's to worry about?
At the risk of offending Mr Markwell, which is not my intent...
I don't think he is seriously worried about his 1911's at all. I think this post and thread were more about a reason to post that link to an article he wrote for
The Gun Mag. The article appears to be written by the OP and is datelined 2016 (New to 10mm?). He mentions being a tad more recoil averse in his advancing years due to arthritis, and discusses specifically that his 10mm won't see high round counts
Mr. Markwell is welcome here and I am glad to click the link as he has some good data in the article, plus I am always glad to read about 10mm handguns. But I do think this post was as much about new buzz an old article as anything.
Quote from: Markwell on August 02 2021 11:02:27 AM MDT
Thanks for the replys.
Here's a link tracing our journey to the 10mm http://www.thegunmag.com/re-evaluating-wilderness-handgun/.
Thanks again; looking forward to more feedback.
I've been a 10mm owner since the first Delta Elites and 1076 came available and still have 10mm's in 1911's and revolvers.
The article you linked to gives much of the focus of bullet weight and velocity in comparison to magnum cartridges, and that's the same comparison others make in other situations like 9mm/.40... easier to shoot, lots of velocity, pretty close to, modern bullets are better, shot placement.... capacity... Yada yada... Egads.
Anyway what's always missing in this and other articles is bullet width, wound channel, better reliability of a revolver and the .44 doesn't stop at 200 grains. Always was, always will be.
Carry a 10, .40, or .22 for that matter if you're comfortable in a dark tent at night, or HEAVY brush all around you and having to deal with your choice.
Thanks man!
Didn't mean to create a stir by posting the link to the Guncrafter 1911 article.
A "new to us" cartridge is one we have a limited amount time with. The 10mm in the 1911 qualifies as we have carried our Guncrafter Industries 10mm a lot but have shot it less than 1K rounds since we got it 2016; that aint very many by our standards. Like many things, our journey with the 10mm has been a learning experience, especially in the reloading department and we found the info on this site extremely valuable. Our bear load for our son has been finalized as follows; 200gr Montana Bullet Works NOE WFNGC in new Win. cases with WLP sparking a charge of 12.5gr. of Accurate #9 for a velocity of 1269fps out of a 6" barrel. I'm sure the GI and the DW Bruin will more than standup to this load as we doubt either will see as many rounds as a typical .45ACP pistol would.
It seems every firearm we own ends up with their own story over the years and the 10mm 1911s are no different. Here's a link to the tale of the Dan Wesson Bruin and where we are going with the 10mm. If deemed inappropriate, feel free to delete it.
https://click.emedia.nrapublications.org/?qs=e598e4d99f763c846e68749d97e69e87f1a123245dab803a238ad5d6a8925f7dd336331a63be99c9d55ccbdc31cbe730c033bdf34cbcd3f1ca1bfc4800cc79b0
Not gonna delete a link to good content. And you aren't creating a stir, I was just giving a possible perspective on a motivation.
We are very glad to have you here and keep the good content coming!
Beautiful weapon and great article, Thanks!
John M.
I don't have much to offer on your original question as I only have the Ruger SR1911 10mm with under 1K rounds. Only one hiccup locking back on round 5 from a 9 round magazine.
Loved reading both of your articles and especially appreciated the group sizes from2 3/4-3 1/2" out of the Bruin. I get the same out of my Ruger but have read it is 1 1/2" capable at 50 yards!!! My trigger breaks clean at 2 3/4# so that is not holding me back.
jazzsax8
We have had a lot of 1911s over the years that had incredible accuracy guarantees (Novak, Nastoff and Vickers guns, to name a few) and most shot to the claimed standards; most just not on our hands. We never could, except on rare occasions, shoot really small groups. Used our old buddy Ken Hackathorn for checking out the true accuracy of a new pistol; now he, when in his prime, shot great groups!
Steve Nastoff's Supercomp and Supercomp II were the guns I drooled over in the 1980's. By the time I was in a position to pay him to build one he had left gunsmithing. I would love to see how a 10mm would run in that configuration.
We have one of Steve's first guns built in the early '80s on a Series 70 Colt. It's a beauty; 5" all hard chrome gun. Took it to Gunsite and shot the '83 world match with it in Yorktown. Never did go the comp gun route although we did have a long slide built, but only because we had a 6" S&W USA MTU barrel that needed a home and we didn't want to cut it to 5". As I'm sure you know, that's back when you had to weld up the slide with another front end from another slide to get to 6".
I'd bet a comped 10mm would be pretty cool though. Although the long slide Bruin seems to help with recoil considerably I'd bet ports would help even more.
Yeah. I see lots of advantages to a Supercomp in 10mm.
First, added mass during locked travel portion of the recoil operation is going drop the slide speed a good deal.
Second, the shortened slide Steve used will have less mass at the end of the slide stroke, reducing the muzzle flip inducing inertia.
Third, the ports will counter what flip there is, making for very rapid target re-acquisition.
Fourth, since he shortened the slide before he added the comp, the gun doesn't end up nearly as long as a 6" longslide. I would love to handle one and see if it was "carry-able". I have no issues with a 5" 1911.
Just put a comp on my G20 7" KKM barrel. Not sure if velocity is affected yet but the emptys now go 10' vs 15' and the felt recoil might be about that same 1/3 reduction. Looks problematic to get the rig out of a chest holster though.
Quote from: Markwell on August 18 2021 07:53:16 AM MDT
I'd bet a comped 10mm would be pretty cool though. Although the long slide Bruin seems to help with recoil considerably I'd bet ports would help even more.
I had a Hienie compensated barrel on my Delta Elite back in the day, it was a real hoot to shoot, especially with hot-loaded 135gr. Noslers and a bucketload of AA#7 powder behind them. With 20gr. SWCs, it was about like a .45 with 200gr. SWCs, which I used in my .45s, but those light bullets with a huge bunch of powder behind them were a real fun load to shoot. I'd put a Clark scope mount (the one that replaced the left grip) on the pistol with a 2X Tasco, and the gun had very little muzzle flip to it. Like I said, it was a real hoot to shoot. I shouldn't have sold it, it was a real blast.
In 1987, I bought a Colt Delta Elite. A steady diet of Norma ammo, and within 500 rounds, I had a cracked frame! I returned the entire firearm to Colt, and they replaced the frame. This time, I noticed a hairline crack at the hole where the slide lock entered on the left side of the frame, at around the 200 round count. Another trip to Colt, and another new frame. This time, I sold the handgun to a dealer at a gunshow. Since then, I own a Kimber, a RAI, a Glock 20 and a Glock 40 that has not suffered any issues. I think those original Colt frames just couldn't take the pounding of the early ammo. I sure wish I had kept that Colt though!
You are really gonna hate selling it once you hear how Colt fixed the issue. Those cracks were not impactful to function and the metal in the rail where they crack wasn't needed. Colt just altered their machining process. They started making frames that just had a gap in the rail where they would crack.
https://www.1911addicts.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.1911addicts.com/attachments/frame-left-jpg.134407/
Quote from: sqlbullet on April 04 2022 09:04:16 AM MDT
You are really gonna hate selling it once you hear how Colt fixed the issue. Those cracks were not impactful to function and the metal in the rail where they crack wasn't needed. Colt just altered their machining process. They started making frames that just had a gap in the rail where they would crack.
https://www.1911addicts.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.1911addicts.com/attachments/frame-left-jpg.134407/
Yup, I still have my blued DE and it is one of the early ones machined this way. Pretty sure I bought it in 1988, no later.