A LGS seemed to be having difficulty selling a new 10mm Ronin this last week. He was happy that I was able to take it off his hands and sweetened the deal with a more than fair discount. :-)
I'm looking forward to taking it to the range this week. More to come.
Nice, you will likely enjoy it a great deal
Ken
Enjoy....I was looking t those but couldn't find one. Let us know how you like it.
Well, I decided that the quirks it has warranted a letter to Springfield and they graciously asked that I call their service guys to send it back to them. So before I shoot it, I just may do that.
Absolutely, I was really impressed with Sig's customer service when my P220 Hunter had a finish peeling issue. All they needed was my shipping details and it was stripped, beed blasted, and was back in my hands in less than 2 weeks. Gota love some of these companies service
Ken
Quote from: gnappi on June 08 2021 05:17:38 PM MDT
Well, I decided that the quirks it has warranted a letter to Springfield and they graciously asked that I call their service guys to send it back to them. So before I shoot it, I just may do that.
Please tell us what quirks it has that were noticeable before even shooting it. Was that the reason for the LGS having trouble selling it?
From the reviews and the price point, it looks like a fine weapon
Quote from: Graybeard on June 09 2021 08:53:53 AM MDT
Quote from: gnappi on June 08 2021 05:17:38 PM MDT
Well, I decided that the quirks it has warranted a letter to Springfield and they graciously asked that I call their service guys to send it back to them. So before I shoot it, I just may do that.
Please tell us what quirks it has that were noticeable before even shooting it. Was that the reason for the LGS having trouble selling it?
Your "before even shooting it" comment sounds accusitory. There are a host of non-cosmetic issues that can be found by anyone familiar with the platform without shooting it no?
Maybe qualifications are in order? I currently have a number of 1911's from Colt, Springfield, and RIA, and have had dozens over the years in every caliber ever made. I have replaced / fit every part in 1911's since the 70's. I also owned the original 10mm info site authored in 1998.
Anyway, I'm guessing customers found #1 in my list below that I did not in the store.
1. The Ronin has a nasty habit of occasionally dropping the hammer only after pulling the trigger twice. Not good on a new gun. Disconnector issue? Grip safety spring? I decided that it was best to give it to Springfield to sort out.
2. The slide stop absolutely will NOT go back in without pushing the slide stop plunger in with a small screwdriver. A spare SS I had slips right in, no biggie. This SS was just poorly fitted and a reason I can see for the "idiot" scratch. Newbies should not have to discover workmanship issues like this.
3. Not a big issue, but the grips are way too thin. They may be OK for Bambi secret agent, or wifey with small hands but the frame felt like it had no grip panels at all. Worse still replacing the grips necessitates buying new screws as the original screws are too short to work with standard (Springfield OEM grips from a loaded target model) thickness grips.
If it were a used gun, I'd just have handled it all, but I figure if SA has any interest in out the door QC problems they may do something upstream to correct these types of issues.
Quote from: gnappi on June 11 2021 03:56:51 AM MDT
Quote from: Graybeard on June 09 2021 08:53:53 AM MDT
Quote from: gnappi on June 08 2021 05:17:38 PM MDT
Well, I decided that the quirks it has warranted a letter to Springfield and they graciously asked that I call their service guys to send it back to them. So before I shoot it, I just may do that.
Please tell us what quirks it has that were noticeable before even shooting it. Was that the reason for the LGS having trouble selling it?
Your "before even shooting it" comment sounds accusitory. There are a host of non-cosmetic issues that can be found by anyone familiar with the platform without shooting it no?
Maybe qualifications are in order? I currently have a number of 1911's from Colt, Springfield, and RIA, and have had dozens over the years in every caliber ever made. I have replaced / fit every part in 1911's since the 70's. I also owned the original 10mm info site authored in 1998.
Anyway, I'm guessing customers found #1 in my list below that I did not in the store.
1. The Ronin has a nasty habit of occasionally dropping the hammer only after pulling the trigger twice. Not good on a new gun. Disconnector issue? Grip safety spring? I decided that it was best to give it to Springfield to sort out.
2. The slide stop absolutely will NOT go back in without pushing the slide stop plunger in with a small screwdriver. A spare SS I had slips right in, no biggie. This SS was just poorly fitted and a reason I can see for the "idiot" scratch. Newbies should not have to discover workmanship issues like this.
3. Not a big issue, but the grips are way too thin. They may be OK for Bambi secret agent, or wifey with small hands but the frame felt like it had no grip panels at all. Worse still replacing the grips necessitates buying new screws as the original screws are too short to work with standard (Springfield OEM grips from a loaded target model) thickness grips.
If it were a used gun, I'd just have handled it all, but I figure if SA has any interest in out the door QC problems they may do something upstream to correct these types of issues.
I'm not sure why you would think I was being "accusatory" in my question. I was genuinely curious as to the details of what you had noticed wasn't right with this gun prior to firing it. That was in no way meant to imply I didn't trust your knowledge of 1911s, in fact quite the opposite. I just wanted to know what Springfield got wrong. Thanks for the explanation.
It's a nice looking gun at a pretty good price point. Bummer that Springfield let it out the door with those QC issues. I hope they make it right for you in a timely manner. Please let us know the outcome.
Yesterday Springfield received both the Ronin and my Loaded target in 9mm on which they are replacing the "glued" in ejector.
Gads I really don't understand value engineering. From what I understand MANY buyers sent their 1911's in to replace the ejector with a pinned in type which they do for free regardless whether you're the original owner or not. Long term I wonder what money saving algorithm they use to justify not drilling a hole and adding a pin to the ejector which has been unquestioned by EVERY other maker for over a hundred years :-)
Anyway, at this point I have nothing but good things to say about Springfield service but, I'll wait till the two get back till I get a warm fuzzy.
As far as my perception of your comment being accusatory, it seems I was wrong thx for the explanation... Mea Culpa.
No worries! I would have been a pretty irritated when I got my new gun home and found the trigger issue you described. A trip to the range, after discovering that, would have been pointless and probably a lot more irritating.
Thanks for the tip on the glued in ejector, as well. I don't own any Springfield 1911s, but hadn't crossed them off my list if the right deal came along. That's a good piece of info to include in the decision making process.
Any updates?
Thanks.
Quote from: terdog on September 18 2022 09:26:24 PM MDT
Any updates?
Thanks.
The Ronin came back in stellar condition as did the loaded target. I liked it enough to buy a Ronin LW Commander in 9mm which I never did fire before converting it to a .38 super. The Springfield LW is now in my carry rotation with my Colt LW Commander in super.
To satisfy any Q before it's asked, I cast / powder coat and reload a number of pistol calibers (10mm,. 40, 9x25, .357 Sig, .357 Mag, 38 special, .38 super, .45acp, .45 Colt, and 7mm BR) and I am in the process of divesting myself of my few 9's as everything I have can easily duplicate 9's but not the other way around.
I bought one of the early Range Officers in 9mm and had the glued in ejector come loose also. Who ever thought that was a good idea? By the time SA paid the shipping both ways and drilled the hole and pinned it in place it seems to me it cost them more than it would have to just have pinned the thing when they built the gun.
Agreed, but you know bean counters... .0001 cent saving on tool head main maintenance, .1 cent savings not buying, stocking and installing a pin. Savings today add up to bonuses all around and costs to repair are deductible :-) Forget about customer ill will, there are lots of other cows who are hungry for your stuff :-) Gads, the business mindset is infuriating.
I worked and retired from IBM PC development (you youngsters out there won't know the company or products) and you wouldn't believe the cost reduction hoops I had to jump through to test and certify cost reduction schemes. Forget how much certification testing cost, .1 cent per part, times 100 parts times 100,000 units built per month adds up.
We (employees) used to say "a couple of million dollars here, a few hundred thousand dollars there, and pretty soon you're talking about REAL money". :-)
In fairness to Springfield, the way the ejector is engineered in the 1911 makes installation a challenge. A quick google search reveals that staked, pinned and locktite are all methods that have been tried. People still experience ejectors that come loose.
Personally, I think staked is the best option. But properly staking the ejector requires special tooling and ideally a large press. Staking not only mechanically deforms the ejector legs but also obturates the legs to fully fit the frame holes. But, if the ejector is improperly staked, it is VERY hard to remove it and start over.
Glue bonds break in the harsh recoil conditions. It is, IMHO, clearly a manufacturing compromise that will eventually fail. However, many people who buy 1911's don't shoot them much. For a lightly used BBQ gun, a chemical bond's weakness may never be experienced. I have a problem with this approach because a martial device should be competent of martial activity.
Pinned ejectors will become loose. But a loose pinned ejector still works fine for 10's of thousands more rounds. It should be addressed as the looseness is slowly enlarging the ejector holes in the frame, but it won't come out or tie up a gun (usually).
I have read about guys combining the three options, but I don't think that makes much sense. Drilling the frame for the pin removes material and will weaken a staked/glued junction. Glue leaves behind a residue that will make working on a staked or pinned ejector harder to deal with. And staked lower legs are a real pain to remove, even with the ejector comes loose.