Looking into a mid priced, but quality progressive reloading setup. I currently use a single stage RCBS Rock Chucker, and love it, however it takes forever to crank much out....Thoughts?
Thanks
I still like the single stage press...I work in stages
Prepping all the brass, Pass Through sizing for many semi auto, Sizing and Depriming then it a matter of priming and powder bullet and seating/crimping.
Yes it is a lot of steps, but it isn't a race for me...
My thoughts exactly, Thanks man!
Just hoping to get some ideas of I ever went to one
Ken
Plus with the single stage, I can keep a better handle on my quality control
I started using a Dillon square deal in the 80's and used it for many years. I came across a great deal on a Dillon 650 around 16 years ago and never turned back. I have too little time for shooting and greatly appreciate the time the Dillon saves me.
The progressive press have made great leaps and the prices and all the tooling adds up, but are nice.
I have a Dillon 550B but haven't used it in quite some time, Where it works its best is making target ammo where you are not working on the upper edge of performance but using powders that occupy casing space (easy to see inspect for the quantity dropped). The powder drop needs to perform really well for consistency.
The operator needs to perform certain steps at each station without hiccups in the process to prevent issues...
People working to increase their loading speeds can increase the potential for mistakes or disaster...Distractions can also be an issue. Powder hopper inspected for enough without running out during the cycling! Each and every step needs attention to what's going on where!
Thanks Wade, for the piece of mind / my anal reloading habits, sticking with the Rock Chucker is likely my best bet, Thanks guys😊
Ken one of the best things I like about having the RCBS Jr. press which I use mainly for bullet seating and crimping process is the amount of feed back (the feel) as I am pressing the bullet or especially when doing crimping. I can feel if something is not exactly right right then and there...
The RCBS Big Max single stage has all the compound leverage needed to work large case sizing or case forming operations with ease.
There are times I just work the brass, Full Length Sizing, Small Base sizing, regular small pistol case resizing, deprimeing as go.
Then there is the Pass Through Sizing which I do on every 10mm/40S&W, 357Sig and 9x25 Dillon with the LEE 10mm FCD with the guts remove. Also 380ACp and 45ACP get the same treatments before regular size and deprime. WHY? Because it has benefitted with 100% reliable feeding overall, by removing any case expansion just above the extractor cut.
So when I start to load all the brass is prepped prior to priming and loading. Oh yea I still place each and every powder charge on the balance beam scale for positive reference that the weight is exact. In the words of Dirty Harry..."A Man's Got To Know His Limitations!"
Thanks Wade, I weigh and verify each load individually also. Just makes me feel better when I build these awesome hand loads 😀
I use an old Lyman turret press. it is a lot faster than a single stage press in that you have all the dies set up and you can (for instance) de-prime & re-size with one die, rotate the turret and flare the case mouth with the next die. I took the primer tube off my press as it was always getting jammed or spilling primers all over the floor. (not good especially lately with the primer shortage) I prime with a hand tool. I have had an old RCBS "Green Machine" progressive press. it actually took longer to load ammo because I had to constantly fiddle with it to keep it working. I also had the use of a brother's Dillon 550 for a while. same thing. the turret ended up being faster, my powder charges were more consistent (I weigh each charge when loading max loads) and EVERY case was primed. when the Dillon worked correctly, it really cranked out the ammo. it was great for target ammo but for loading hot hunting or S.D. ammo, I didn't trust it.
if you want more speed in your loading but still have the control of a single stage press, get a turret press. it gives the best of both worlds.
I do most of my reloading on a Dillon 550B. One of the things I like most is that it's not an auto indexing press, the turret doesn't advance as it comes down. Manually advancing the turret leaves everything where it is if something goes wrong and there's less to thing about to correct and continue. Crush a case at the powder drop/flaring station, just pull it out and dump the powder back in the hopper. Weigh some charges in the middle of a batch, no problem. Just don't put a fresh case in the first station. In that scenario, the last two dies, seat and crimp, you don't have to worry about at all. Seating or crimping twice have no ill effects.
It can also be used like a single stage press when loading max loads, especially with powders that don't meter well in progressive presses. Looking at you 800X. I run mine without the retaining pin at the powder drop station (powder drop is empty). Size and prime at first station. Bell the case at the powder drop station, while another is being sized and primed. Then pull out the sized/primed/belled case and put it in a bullet board. I have a RCBS Chargemaster that's weighing out charges as I'm doing that. So I fill the cases in the bullet board as each is individually weighed out, while continuing to size/prime and flare more brass. Once the bullet board is full of charged cases, I reinsert them at the charging station. Then flip the turret to the next station and seat a bullet. Then insert another charged case, flip turret, insert bullet, and the previous one is crimped.
Doing it all on the press, using powders that meter very well, like Bullseye, Power Pistol, etc, I've found that a rock solid bench is a key factor. No bounce or vibration as the handle bottoms out. I typically get + or - .1gr with the aforementioned powders. Most charges are actually dead on the money.
Thanks so much!
Ken
Hey Ken, I also am always thinking about a progressive press. I would just use it for 9mm as I like the feel of a single stage like Wade stated. I shoot a lot of 9 when I serious shoot so would like to try a progressive just for that round. Now I am using two presses at once but one is just for de-priming before going to the wet tumbler. Gets the primer pocket like new and the cases work better for resizing and flare in the secound press. I am experimenting with this setup in general both presses are turret type presses. Craig
Thanks Craig!
I have loaded on a RCBS Rockchucker for years. Finally bought a Hornady LNL for loading 9mm after my wife and daughter started shooting. 500 to 1k rounds a week was just too much for the single stage. I still de-prime all my brass on the RC and hand prime them before running the LNL for sizing, powder, bullet seating, and crimp. Never have liked seating primers on the progressive.
Thanks DDRiller
Ken
I use a Dillon 550 for all of my handguns.
All my rifle rounds are done on an old Lyman spartan press that was given to me from my father in law. I just recently acquired a RCBS summit press but have yet to use it.
Only rifle round I would consider on a progressive is a 556/223.
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I loaded pistol and rifle ammo for years on my RCBS single stage press. I still use it for hunting ammo for both rifle and pistol. For pistol volume reloading, for plinking rounds, nothing beats a progressive press. You can crank out a lot of ammo in a comparatively short period of time. I use a Dillon 550B I converted to a 550C.
A few weeks ago, a guy at work gave me a box of 155 grain Hornady bullets he bought thinking they were loaded rounds. Since he just bought a G20 and didn't have any ammo to shoot through it, I loaded up his bullets using some extra cases, primers and powder I had available.
Just for fun, I thought I would time how long it took to crank out some rounds. I loaded the first round verifying powder charge weight, bullet seating depth and crimp. Once I was confident I had everything set correctly, I loaded the primer tube with 99 primers. I then proceeded to load the rounds as usual. I finished cranking out the 99th round and looked at my watch. It took 13 minutes.
Of course, it takes longer when you factor in press setup time, filling the powder dispenser and filling the primer tube. I would not load full power, maximum hunting loads on the Dillon press because I'm far too anal to operate that way with precisely loaded ammo but for plinkin rounds it works really well. I normally load 500 rounds at a session. It would take me quite a while to load 500 rounds on my RCBS single stage press.
With the amount of ammo I have loaded over the years, I have easily saved enough money to pay for the press as opposed to buying factory ammo. Some would argue, I haven't really saved any money because I wouldn't have spent that much money buying and shooting factory ammo. I'm not to sure about that as I have done some pretty stupid things in my time. :D
Thanks Sep!
Many years ago, when I was shooting IPSC, I won a Dillon 550B at a match in southern Indiana. I set it up, and used it for many years, and still have it (in storage at the moment).
One really nice thing about it for me, using a lot of different cartridges, was that the same shell-plate for 9mm, also worked with .38 Super, .40 S&W, 10mm, and all the .223 clan, with a simple change of locator pins, (although you DO have to change primer size for 10mm). That did simplify things a lot.
Although I probably shot and loaded more .45 ACP back then than anything else, it did make it darned handy when fooling with other cartridges I shot a lot. Using a 550B, I could load 400 rounds an hour if I really wanted to do so. That makes it easy to pay attention to powder charges and the priming setup, I can't recall anything worse than an upside down primer now and then, which I usually caught before it was a real issue.
I don't think it is any real headache to use a progressive, IF YOU PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING. Shouldn't you be doing that anyway? ;D
Absolutely, analness is your friend when it comes to reloading
Hey Kenk, I almost bought a Dillion at a gun show last weekend. I don't know which one it was and the guy selling was busy between a lot of customers and his phone. It came with all the attachments except the case feeder but couldn't get a price so gave up. I not sure I could of carried it out to the car anyway!! Craig
Thanks Craig 😊
I had a flowchart I once made from this text, and it's a bit easier for office workers like I was to read but it's gone.
Anyway... For the inexperienced or easily distracted, a progressive can make a LOT of ammo, both good AND BAD REAL F-A-S-T.
Those who came from a single stage press REALLY will do better than the newbie IF...
You setup ONE stage at a time. A single stage press allows you to "feel" every nuance of the operation. A progressive stacks all of those 3,4,5 or 6 operations into one pull of the handle. Not knowing what the press should feel like when it's operating correctly leads to misteaks (misspelling deliberate)
Station 1 Size, decap, and prime. Typical problems here are:
1. Wrong shell plate
2. Size die not sufficiently far enough down to fully resize the case. (Will fail plunk test)
3. Decapping pin gets stuck in the deprimed case, and the rest of the loads are not deprimed
4. Primer not fed.
5. Primer flipped over
6. Primer not seating all the way in. (will likely cause cartridge rotation being difficult)
----------------------------------------------------------
Station 2. Bell mouth, neck expand and powder dump.
Typical problems here are:
1a. No mouth bell.
1b. Insufficient mouth bell
2. Incorrect or NO powder charge.
See 3 below for problems in the NEXT station
---------------------------------------------------------
Station 3a. Bullet seat
OR
Station 3b. Bullet seat and crimp
OR
Station 3c. Powder checker
3a. Bullet shearing off due to 1a or 1b
3a. Case crushing (will fail plunk test)
3b. Bullet seats too far, does not meet min COAL.
3b. Insufficient bullet seat depth, bullet past MAX COAL
3b(1). Excessive crimp possible crush / deformed case (will fail plunk test)
3b(2). Insufficient crimp,bullet setback in auto, bullet slips forward toward cylinder gap in revolver causing jam.
3c. From station2... No / insufficient powder, leads bullet lodging in barrel to K'boom after second round is fed and fired.
3c. From station2... Excessive powder leads to K'boom
--------------------------------------------------------
Station 4. Case crimp
4a. See 3b(1), and 3b(2)
Other suggestions...
Try to use once fired brass, and make only a few rounds, Plunk test them all, and range test one at a time to look for obvious issues like slide failure to latch on last / only round, flattened primers, case splits, case bulges.
NEVER time yourself, it's stupid AND dangerous.
OK, you're GOING ignore me and do it anyway, but remember... loading primers, replenishing powder and empty brass are bound to the REAL time it takes to make a box of a hundred. Those who report delusional 3 minutes to load a hundred rounds NEVER take into account press maintenance. Remember it's not supposed to be a chore, stay focused.
Grab a case that's split and put it your palm with other good cases, get used to the clinking / chinking sound that the split case makes when mixed with good brass.
Get load data from powder makers, leave "recipes" to those who are bent on self destruction.
Finally... LEAVE THE GORAM PHONE IN ANOTHER ROOM!!! No beer, or (perish forbid) smoking, and make a Do not disturb sign for your loading room / garage door.
Stay safe
Any additions are welcome :-)
Good chart Gary! Then there are the expensive tools, die plates, shell holders, dies, etc that are needed for each cartridge or caliber setup...
Dillon has always made great equipment but, most owners set-ups loading multiple calibers have multiple heads with powder measures etc. due to the extensive procedure it takes to change them out. After I got my Hornady 5 hole and figured out how easy it is to change calibers, my friend with the D 550 sold his and bought one like mine. Its easy to get over $2K in the Dillon 550 where the Hornady would be about $650 for multiple calibers. I use the quick change bushing kit in my single stage that the Hornady has and set them both up for the same length so nothing needs adjustment going back and forth. I have used the auto priming feature but really prefer to prime by hand negating some of the benefits of a progressive. I do auto prime with most all lighter target loads in 9 & 10mm.
I feel pretty good loading hotter 10mm loads using 9.0gr of longshot but if I needed a max load closer to 9.4gr would weigh each load. Some powders like 800X are a no go along with Varget for .223 as the case gets too full to keep from spilling but a powder like TAC works great. New load testing of 20 to 50 rounds always gets done on the single stage.
Great info, Thanks jazzsax
Quote from: jazzsax8 on June 23 2021 03:54:23 PM MDT
Dillon has always made great equipment but, most owners set-ups loading multiple calibers have multiple heads with powder measures etc. due to the extensive procedure it takes to change them out. After I got my Hornady 5 hole and figured out how easy it is to change calibers, my friend with the D 550 sold his and bought one like mine. Its easy to get over $2K in the Dillon 550 where the Hornady would be about $650 for multiple calibers. I use the quick change bushing kit in my single stage that the Hornady has and set them both up for the same length so nothing needs adjustment going back and forth. I have used the auto priming feature but really prefer to prime by hand negating some of the benefits of a progressive. I do auto prime with most all lighter target loads in 9 & 10mm.
I feel pretty good loading hotter 10mm loads using 9.0gr of longshot but if I needed a max load closer to 9.4gr would weigh each load. Some powders like 800X are a no go along with Varget for .223 as the case gets too full to keep from spilling but a powder like TAC works great. New load testing of 20 to 50 rounds always gets done on the single stage.
It's good to see you're satisfied with the Hornady, they stay in business for good reasons.
Really like my green machine but is so slow...probably what it best
After I shot my 1st USPSA match I came home and reloaded on a single stage press----the next day I ordered a Hornaday progressive press.
Thanks man!, looking into it now
I got a Dillon RL450 as a high school graduation present in 1984 and have since loaded a zillion rounds with it. I like the fact that everything is manual so I can feel everything—I was always somewhat distrustful of the various improvements that came with the later 550:models.
I purchased some aftermarket LED lighting on Amazon specifically made for RCBS presses—HIGHLY Recommended. It consists of a vertical row of LEDS that mount to the inside of the press and shine away from you (and onto your work) and a single LED that mounts in the center of the four dies and shines straight down. It makes it much easier to visually inspect powder levels.
For some calibers I use it as a single stage, almost. For rifle and bottleneck pistol such as 357 Auto Mag, I will put an RCBS lube die in the first station (which also decaps the case) and the sizer die with the decapping pin removed in the second station. Then I remove the case at the third station to trim and wash the lube off. On a later date, I prime at station 1, expand and powder drop at station 2 and bullet seat at station 3. If I'm crimping separately that's at station 4.
I have a very cheap Lee single stage press that I use exclusively for RCBS trim dies....
"...mid priced, but quality progressive reloading setup."
I'm unsure about 'mid priced' but have come to know and greatly appreciate quality. My time is best spent ensuring quality rather than regularly tinkering, adjusting, etc. To the extent I may buy/cry once and can set/forget, I do, with a long-term horizon.
Every bench, at some point, should have the equivalent of a single stage. I went another step with a turret in the set/forget spirit. Always using a universal de-primer and Redding G-Rx push-through. (Nice to keep de-priming garbage off my progressive.) A collet-puller sees occasional use along with a belted-mag collet sizer. These four dies reside on a Redding T-7.
Re: volume, I'm low/mid-range loader for primarily handgun rnds. (Low vol rifle on the T-7.) Press qualities I sought were simplicity, reliability, ease of use/cartridge change, CS, after-market/mod-friendly. I went with a 550 and remain awfully pleased.
Most (all?) progressives can benefit from various mods, from after-market parts to tweeks and polishing. Don't overlook the gain from gradually getting your press thoroughly dialed.
Great points, Thanks Mike!, slow as it is, I sure like my single stage green machine
IMO a progressive press is not about production it's about maximizing your time and minimizing your effort.
One pull of the handle one round doesn't mean one per second. I make maybe a hundred rounds an hour but it's not a chore every round that drops into the bin is perfect and gets plunked to prove it.
There isn't enough money to make sense of...
1. Pull handle size... Decap...
2. Prime
3. Pull handle bell, dump powder
4. Pull handle seat
5. Pull handle crimp.
400 rounds equals 1600 handle pulls no math there... I much prefer 400 pulls 400 rounds.
Thanks!
Quote from: gnappi on July 07 2021 05:44:36 PM MDT
IMO a progressive press is not about production it's about maximizing your time and minimizing your effort.
One pull of the handle one round doesn't mean one per second. I make maybe a hundred rounds an hour but it's not a chore every round that drops into the bin is perfect and gets plunked to prove it.
There isn't enough money to make sense of...
1. Pull handle size... Decap...
2. Prime
3. Pull handle bell, dump powder
4. Pull handle seat
5. Pull handle crimp.
400 rounds equals 1600 handle pulls no math there... I much prefer 400 pulls 400 rounds.
Sorry you guys are a little blinded by your experiences. Explain how you don?t have to pull your single stage for every operation. (Using other equipment still counts)
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Quote from: sstewart on October 23 2021 10:17:19 AM MDT
Quote from: gnappi on July 07 2021 05:44:36 PM MDT
IMO a progressive press is not about production it's about maximizing your time and minimizing your effort.
One pull of the handle one round doesn't mean one per second. I make maybe a hundred rounds an hour but it's not a chore every round that drops into the bin is perfect and gets plunked to prove it.
There isn't enough money to make sense of...
1. Pull handle size... Decap...
2. Prime
3. Pull handle bell, dump powder
4. Pull handle seat
5. Pull handle crimp.
400 rounds equals 1600 handle pulls no math there... I much prefer 400 pulls 400 rounds.
Sorry you guys are a little blinded by your experiences. Explain how you don?t have to pull your single stage for every operation. (Using other equipment still counts)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think you missed the last sentence. ;)
How are you going to get 400 finished rounds with 400 handle pulls on any press?? Progressive or single stage.
Anyway, The number of pulls is hardly the best criteria for ammo reloading
Quote from: sstewart on October 23 2021 04:05:53 PM MDT
How are you going to get 400 finished rounds with 400 handle pulls on any press?? Progressive or single stage.
Anyway, The number of pulls is hardly the best criteria for ammo reloading
The discussion was really about time, not handle pulls. It obviously takes more time to pull a handle 1600 times vs 400. Technically you're correct, it takes a minimum of 404 pulls on my Dillon 550 to make 400 rounds.
Not to mention filling four primer tubes :-)
I love my Dillon 550. It saves me a lot of time. I can load 100 rounds in 15 or 20 minutes. I can also change my process to single stage loading when I want to experiment.
Older thread, for the heck of it:
I own a Redding UltraMag 700, a Redding T-7, a Dillion 550, and a Dillion 1050. So everything from a single stage to a true progressive.
At least you should look into a proper turret press like the Redding T-7. I still use it in batch mode, but at least I can fit all dies for 2 calibers on one head. No more die changes and adjustments takes a lot of annoying work out of the equation. The T-7 is wide open from 3 sides. Very easy to feed cases with one hand while using the other on the handle and to feed bullets. Get a Hornday hopper for it.
If I could only own one press, it would be the T-7.
If you really want to go progressive, look into the Dillon 550. Caliber changes are easy and quick, unlike on the 1050.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NjS81vg4/Img-3428.jpg)
Thanks crockett!
What Crocket said is all true. We switched to a Redding T7 a number of years ago and never regretted it. We now have 4 tool heads with pre-set dies. We use the T7 for cartridges that we don't shoot lots of like .250-300 and .45-70.
For the stuff we shoot in volume we run 2 Dillon 550s and a 650. Our #1 550 is set up for .223/5.56 with a Hornady powder measure. Only thing that ever gets changed on this machine is seating
depth and powder charge. The 650 (with case feeder) does only 9mm and .45ACP and often it doesn't get switched over for a year or more as when we run either cartridge we runs lots of it. Our second 550 is the do-all machine; .357/.38 spcl., .38 Super, 10mm, .45 Colt, .44Mag., .45AR, .32 H&R, etc. We have separate tool herd for most of these rounds.
Like someone else mentioned, progressive machines are all about time vs. volume. We have never looked at reloading as a hobby but, as an old time IPSC/IDPA shooter, it has always been a necessary evil; if one wanted to shoot a considerable number of rounds per year they needed to be loaded with as little time spent as possible.
If you shoot a lot, or aspire to, you need to go progressive.
Absolutely, Thanks Markwell
I have a 20 year old Dillon 550 B (converted the C last year). This was after selling my RCBS ammomaster that I owned for ~10 years. Dillon and RCBS support have been 100% excellent in my many years of experience.
If you go progressive, I highly suggest the mind set of taking your time vs going as fast as you can. This goes for caliber changes/switching primer size. There is a lot going on with each throw of the handle and all it takes is a hiccup on primer feed to stop one in their tracks. Triple check the powder feed/charge weight before going full production and I like using a separate crimp die in the 4th station.
I'm a long-time RCBS Rock Chucker SS user. A few years ago, I ventured out and purchased a Dillon 550C. In short, I love it. Set-up took a little time, but once done, it has performed to my expectations. I still use the RC, but the Dillon meters Longshot well and does not disappoint. Plus, Dillon has a lifetime warranty.
Thanks man!