My wife and I were at the gun counter at Cabelas. I was looking at a Kimber Rapide Black Ice in 45 acp. I have never owned a 1911 and I've been wanting one in 10mm. The guy at the counter said he had a Kimber in 10mm in the back that was a two tone model or something but he couldn't remember. I asked him if he would go back and see which one it was. He came back and said he lied, it was the Rapide Black Ice in 10mm. My wife didn't skip a beat and said we'll take it. I was just sort of standing there stunned. Apparently her and my son have been trying to find one for me for Christmas for quite some time now. So now I finally have my first 1911 and I'm stoked that it's in 10mm. I can't wait to try it out!
Sweet and sounds like you have a great wife and son!
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Quote from: Alabusa on December 04 2020 09:41:21 PM MST
Sweet and sounds like you have a great wife and son!
Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
I am truly blessed with an amazing wife and kids.
Congrats!!!
Some thoughts since you've never owned a 1911.
Field strip it, clean the heck out of it, and lube the snot out of it. Shoot 50 - 100 rnds, then clean and lube it all over again. Run her wet.
Dry fire it to get used to the trigger.
Don't slam the slide forward on an empty chamber.
Enjoy! Let us know how your new Best Friend does.
That's a really nice Christmas present!! As terdog mentioned, clean and lube it up. Kimber lists a break in period, IIRC, of 500 rounds. I've never had one take that many. You may have some jams initially, you may not. I use Tetra gun grease on the rails of all my 1911s. A very small amount will do. Also, stick with quality mags. I'm often amazed with the number of people that have expensive 1911s and use the cheapest mags they can find.
Now how about a range report!? :)
Don't slam the slide forward on an empty chamber.
Thanks for all of the advise. What happens if you slam the slide home on an empty chamber?
Quote from: Graybeard on December 05 2020 05:22:49 AM MST
That's a really nice Christmas present!! As terdog mentioned, clean and lube it up. Kimber lists a break in period, IIRC, of 500 rounds. I've never had one take that many. You may have some jams initially, you may not. I use Tetra gun grease on the rails of all my 1911s. A very small amount will do. Also, stick with quality mags. I'm often amazed with the number of people that have expensive 1911s and use the cheapest mags they can find.
Now how about a range report!? :)
Will the Wilson Combat mags work ok in the Kimber then? I know everyone and their dog makes mags for 1911's in 45 acp but I didn't know if 10mm ones were as universal.
Next question for all you 1911 experts. I got the heavier Wolff recoil spring for my XDM 10mm. Is this something I'm going to want to do soon in the Kimber? I believe I read it only comes with an 18.5 pound spring.
Slamming the slide closed on an empty chamber is hard on the slide and gun.
I would shoot it with the 18.5 before changing anything, my springfield 10mm shot fine with box ammo and 18.5 spring it came with from the factory. I hand load some hot rounds that I fire so I did go heavier on my recoil spring due to this.
Merry Christmas!!
1911 are awesome guns and in 10mm it just makes them even better!
So I cleaned it all up and lubed it with Lucas gun oil. The loads I shot were all my hand loads that I had loaded for my XDM. They were a 165gr Vcrown over a medium load of Accurate #5, a 200gr Hornady HAP over a medium load of Accurate #5, and a MBW 200gr NOE WFN with the Hitech coating over a stiff charge of Accurate #9. Sometimes the slide wouldn't make it all the way forward from the locked open position. I had 100% reliability with all three loads once the first round was chambered. My sons however had a few here and there, where the slide didn't close all the way. Part of that was probably their grip on the pistol, some was probably the new gun needing broken in, and some was probably hand loads that were once fired brass in a XDM chamber. It was cold and windy so I didn't do any serious accuracy work. I'm not the best pistol shot anyway and probably wouldn't do the gun justice. I was happy with the results. It was noticeably softer to shoot then my XDM. My 14 year old son absolutely loved it and can't wait to shoot it again. I think the reliability will improve with some more break in. I think it's going to get a stiffer spring. After about 100 rounds today I'm happy with it so far.
The Wilson 10mm mags run just fine in my Kimber 10mm, but they are surprisingly thinner metal than the 47D mags in 45acp. That's not a problem, just a little weird feeling. The standard Kimber mags work perfectly in mine, as well. Tripp mags are another good option.
Only one of my Kimbers had the exact same issue you described during break in. It went away before I hit 200 rounds. I bet yours will too. I wouldn't mess around with the recoil spring until you determine it has been broken in and reliability has been achieved, or not. It should run just fine, after break in, as it was shipped.
Mine shoots a lot softer than my XDM10 4.5 as well. I think it's a design issue with the XDM. All the stress is on the front frame rails, in front of your hand, and more muzzle flip is the result.
Congrats again on a wonderful Christmas present!
WoW!
What a nice Christmas indeed...
Also, what a way to enter the 1911 world, with a 10mm specimen.
Like others have said, break her in and then figure out recoil springs, etc...
See how far the brass flies and adjust springs accordingly. If the reluctance to go 100% into battery continues after break in, a couple more pounds wouldn't hurt in this respect either.
Also, search the site for the "firing pin stop" mod. For the 1911s. That is one of the best, cheapest, and easier mods to do if you are going to regularly run "real" 10mm loads through her.
Congrats again and Merry Christmas
I'll tell you what I tell all first time 1911 owners - Congratulations on your new favorite handgun.
Thank you for all the advice. I'm up to about 200 rounds now. It's still having trouble feeding occasionally with good rounded, jacketed type ammo. I fed it some soft SWC bullets that tended to foul my other 10mm. They didn't foul this one like the other one but they did not feed well at all. I wasn't too upset over this because I don't plan on loading anymore of those bullets. Now I am at a point where I can work up new loads that will be a better fit length wise for this action. Any COAL recommendations for the Sig V crown and Hornady Hap would be appreciated. I shortened the 200gr hard cast NOE WFN from 1.25 to 1.24. They seem to cycle pretty good now.
Never played with semi wadcutter but I load all my reloads at 1.250 except my gold dots I have to run at 1.200 for some reason they catch in the mag otherwise.
Also may want to check plunk test I know my springfield has a really tight chamber and I have to use a heavier crimp for the rounds to fit freely. It cause me some issues of not going fully into battery I had some box ammo I was running that I had laying around. I recrimped the box ammo and never had another issue since.
Quote from: HNDLDR on December 05 2020 08:13:27 AM MST
What happens if you slam the slide home on an empty chamber?
Most specifically this can have an effect on the hammer/sear relationship that can impact the quality of the trigger pull, especially in 1911's with custom trigger work.
It can also have a negative effect on the link pin and the slide stop holes in the frame. The pin eventually start to shear and the frame holes can eventually be worked out-of-round, though these both take many, many thousands of slide drops on an empty chamber, and may be caused in part by lower quality frames and parts.
Quote from: HNDLDR on December 05 2020 08:28:29 AM MST
Next question for all you 1911 experts. I got the heavier Wolff recoil spring for my XDM 10mm. Is this something I'm going to want to do soon in the Kimber? I believe I read it only comes with an 18.5 pound spring.
I would suggest a flat bottom firing pin stop first and foremost. This will help dump a bunch of slide velocity as the slide comes out of battery without increasing it's velocity as it goes back into battery. This happens because a flat bottom stop moves the fulcrum point in the slide/hammer/hammer pin "lever". EGW sells both series 70 and series 80 compatible stops. As a general rule of thumb using an 18.5 lb recoil spring, a flat bottom firing pin stop and a 25 lb main spring (hammer spring) will deliver similar slide velocity in 10mm as 45 ACP ball delivers in a standard government model. This is based on research done my Ned Christiansen of Michiguns.
Quote from: HNDLDR on December 05 2020 09:39:58 PM MST
Sometimes the slide wouldn't make it all the way forward from the locked open position... My sons however had a few here and there, where the slide didn't close all the way. Part of that was probably their grip on the pistol... I think the reliability will improve with some more break in. I think it's going to get a stiffer spring. After about 100 rounds today I'm happy with it so far.
"Limp-wristing" will induce a three point jam. Also, weak magazine springs will also cause a three point jam. The magazine spring participates in the load cycle in two ways.
First, it has to get the next round pushed up into the feed position during the few milliseconds the slide is fully to the rear.
Next, once the round being fed clears the magazine feed lips, the round below, or the follower on the last round, accelerates the base of the round up the breech face.
In 10mm this all happens faster due to higher slide velocities, so any sluggishness in the magazine spring can result in a round that is not fully lifted and properly presented in the feed position, or it may not provide the extra bump to get the base started up the breech face. This will be even worse in your Kimber Rapide since the slide mass is reduced.
Other causes of the three point jam I have found are longer COAL with some bullet profiles. I tend to limit myself to 1.250" and find that this rectifies most of the issues I have in my 1911's in 10mm. As you have discovered, those with a especially wide metplat might need a short COAL.
Rounds not chambering from slide lock indicates to me that the ammo may not be properly sized. Ensure the ammo will pass the plunk test. See if it also happens with new factory 10mm ammo or with new brass handloads. I would invest in a push through size die and a case gauge before I went to heavier springs.
Heavier recoil springs will treat the symptom of the problem, not correct the actual problem. An in spec 1911 running in-spec ammo should run fine with a 18.5 lb spring, and should chamber a round from slide lock easily. In fact, it should chamber a round from slide lock with a 10 lb spring, though I would not expect the gun to run right with a spring that light using full power ammo.
So, get a flat bottom firing pin stop, and some extra power magazine springs and see how it goes.
That's some great information Sqlbullet, thank you. Right now I'm fully willing to take most of the responsibility for the reliability issues because of my hand loads. So far all the gun has shot is brass that's been fired through another pistol at least once. The bullets were seated to whatever length fit my XDM magazine and I know most of them didn't have a very much of a taper crimp on them. Almost to the point where they barely plunked into the XDM chamber. Those bullets are all shot up now and I need to work up some careful loads for this new pistol. I know I shouldn't expect this new gun to eat all the junk food that my XDM eats no questions asked. I bought a Lee bulge buster years ago that I used on a 45 acp that I had at the time. I don't remember if that will work with my Lee 40/10mm dies or not. I guess I'll have to dig it back out and see. As far as factory rounds or new brass, I don't know how long it's going to be before I can get either.
You will need a new die for your push through sizing system. The big secret of the lee bulge buster is that it is actually just a carbide factory crimp die with the crimp ring removed and a Lee bullet size catch barrel added to the top.
I wanna love my 10mm's in 1911. This is shown by the fact that I own more 10mm's in 1911 than any other platform by a factor of 2X. But, they are by far the most finicky about ammo. Glocks eat just about anything that is even a cousin to in spec. I suspect your XDm is the same.
My Witness guns are very forgiving as well, though the chambers are notably tighter than the Glocks. Since I had a Witness first, I set-up all my reloading practices for a plunk test on that gun, and except for COAL my 1911's liked that ammo. Oh...And my Witness full-size will immediately reveal anyone that doesn't have a firm grip on the gun!
My 1911's all eat factory ammo just fine. That includes some offerings from Double Tap and Buffalo Bore years ago. I have never run any Underwood through them. By the time Underwood hit the market I was firmly entrenched in reloading, and rarely bought factory ammo other than really cheap range ammo.
But, the 1911's will be the first to react as specs start to move to the edges or outside the envelope of 10mm Auto SAAMI. Makes reloading just a touch of a challenge at times for sure.
Good luck!
Congratulations